The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[Snowbird]

I think it is relatively certain that Acres Wild Farm was incorporated and filed a “C” tax form. Since th horse in question was owned by Acres Wild and Paul Valliere was the owner as registered with SEF it is likely he has always run and operated as a business.

I do not agree that most horse owners donot have a farm. There are many incorporated farms that do not own a specific piece of land. The horses themselves represent the farm. I see this on the checks we receive at our shows. Many horse owners also include the horses under PR and advertising as part of their existing business of many varieties.

For example you can be certain the the Friesians owned by Martha Stewart are part of her corporation and they are covered as a business expense.

In New Jersey for the tax advanatge of farmland assessment most horse owners do have farms and are businesses which produce minimum income from breeding and grazing.

[xegeba]

Do you think he would have sent the horse to the killers and take that big loss? Wouldn’t sheer greed make him find an excuse to sell him down the road for maybe less than

HUH? Are you saying that if Bali bought a horse and horse turned out to be a loser… that selling him down the road (for a loss)would be a product of “sheer greed”? Bali… help me out here.

[Equit8tor]

Are you suggesting that by “knowing all the facts” that we too would “welcome him back”??? Please, then, disclose these “facts”.

[Jumphigh83]

Obviously, you know nothing about the man in question. He mucks daily and arrives with or before all his staff. His day starts and ends with stalls.

Lucky me…
I have been SLAIN…somehow an approriate name…

[Lori_B]

scout33:

Whether PV or any other specific individual from the group in question do or do not apply for reinstatement, it’s a safe bet that one of them will consider it, particularly since, as has been reported by other posts, some of these folks are still engaged in equestrian-related businesses. So, we are saying, as clearly as possible, that they will not be welcomed by us, should they choose to do so. Any equestrian organization that feels inclined to have a short memory about their misdeeds is now on notice that reinstating any of these folks will produce a s$$$storm of bad press, petitions, e-mails, phone calls, etc.

[SGray]

Originally posted by Uberraschung:
…A television show about some riding teenagers has nothing to do with 10 year old news (the kids in the program were what…8 years old max at the time of this news?) for an organization people outside of horses have never heard of.

the crime was committed a decade or more ago but the eligibility to apply for reinstatement by those that committed the crimes is past, present and future - a current event as it were

[Snowbird]

Racetb To the best of my knowledge Joe Plemmons said he was welcome at Wellington and he goes down just to sell some horses. Personally, since admitting to killing his last disatisfied client; I think I would be a little cautious about buying from him under any circumstances.

[Snowbird]

Then tell us where to find the published correction which you say was made. I haven’t received that my mail must have been lost.

Actually, Snowbird-Suppose my analysis of you comes from not only reading your bitter and cynical posts, but from what I have heard about you personally? That you are a bitter old woman who sits by the computer all day with a bottle of booze and whose daughter decided she could no longer work with due to the same? Might not be pretty, but as I said, I have never spoken to you. Only heard things from the rumor mill. Much like your assumptions about Paul.

I have in NOW way discredited anyone.

Am I to assume the above was a compliment?

[Snowbird]

What a wonderful idea Coreene. If anyone can find the time to scan in copies of the ads thanking Paul Valiere for their show success I would love to post them on our page for photos of the infamous felons of the Horse World.

Anyone with photos of any of the others as well I think should be posted. I will post them anonymously; the information providers names will not be published. I think this is a public service since this information is all public record.

[Hucklebug]

I sent a link to the petition to several horse people I know who i don’t think follow the board and got a response back from one grappling with whether PV had “served his time or not” and definitely not someone I suspect will sign the petition. THis is someone i respect and know as an animal lover and I was rather taken aback to get the message. However, she had personal first hand knowledge of working with him…i was wondering of the people who have actually worked with him, are there any who strongly feel he shouldn’t be reinstated?

[Kap]

Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>With all due respect, Chanda, you were what, about 10 yrs old at the time?
I have trouble believing that a ten yr. old could remember accurately anything that was going on in the adult world so many years later.
And I don’t know ANY ten yr. olds that would be anything less than horrified to learn that someone with so much influence could stoop to such low actions. They certainly wouldn’t be as forgiving as you would seem to have been at that age. Things are a little more black and white to an ordinary ten yr. old.

My memory is quite accurate; the conversation happened in my driveway. Paul lived across the street at the time.
I doubt anything was as black and white as you want to make it for any child at the time who grew up in the industry and knew everyone involved personally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Knowing “everyone involved personally” probably skews your memory even more, and makes you all the more biased, IMHO.

[Snowbird]

I think the key to the dilemma is simply this: If the administration at that time wanted they could have said there was automatic Re-Instatement in 15 years unless they had violated the law again. BUT what is interesting is they didn’t phrase it that way.

They said that Re-Instatement could be applied for after 15 years if there was evidence of a reformation. So it seems to me it is up to those who wish to prove their virtue and that I think has to be more than writing a few checks.

Certainly if not literally the intent and meaning of the suspension has been ignored. It could be that some of whome we have nothing have been within the spirit of the rules.

[xegeba]

the guy is overcooked if he does and burnt beyond recognition if he doesn’t.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Yes, as I said before, Big Dawg has done a remarkable job of keeping the thread in front of everyone.

[lyrical]

showponymom, I personally just don’t read posts when they are written by certain posters. That way, I don’t waste time and don’t need to figure out the pretzel logic.

After reading these boards for so many years, it has saved me a lot of time, not to mention my sanity.

I highly recommend the technique, and you will soon figure out who to skip.

[Erin]

Be nice, be respectful, be polite, no snarking.

And for heaven’s sake, when someone is obviously trolling, DON’T FEED THEM. Just hit the little post alert button instead.

[xegeba]

and how would you feel about PV if he had decided to cut bait and send the failure to the slaughterhouse? Less greedy, but more humane?

[Snowbird]

I bet Big Dawg is very little everywhere that’s why he chose that monika. Big Dawgs don’t have to brag. Little pee wee dawgs have to brag and pretend to be Big Dawgs.!

[Sheila_H]

Sure there is. It’s called RICO.

[philosoraptor]

Originally posted by big dawg:
…oh that’s right, it is about a woman’s right to choose…Anyway, I can see that none of you want to hear…

How does one get from banning competitors who have been caught killing horses to (human) abortion rights/protesters?

I can’t believe there is even a debate about a “horseman” who has been caught killing one of his horses for profit/greed/stupidity? Is it so hard to find equestrians who want to ride at higher levels that we’re scared to ban the ones who need to be out?

If you’re caught doing serious enough animal abuse and are convicted, in many places you may be banned from keeping that kind of animal again. So why would these riders be even allowed to be around horses much less compete on them?