Okay young ones (Sara and Varsity)Take the advise given …read the thread…I know you will not be persuaded to any other opinion…but may find the topic has been exhausted…
In April 2003 the USEF applied to the US Olympic Committee and pledged to align their rules to conform to the USOC…Everyone in the USEF is now an affiliate of the USOC. The rules AS they are…the rules apply to everyone equally.
Sorry I don’t anyone is listening to yeah…but…
Yes, but you are not a follower PB. Never have been…thank god!
He does have supporters that are just as willing to work hard on his behalf as those working against him
Well it will be GREAT to have these supporters step up to the microphone - identify themselves and pitch their support and why they feel someone who killed his horse for insurance money should be allowed back in the sport. So far the “supporters” using their legal names has been minimal - let’s get those people out in the sunlight with their names on record. I’m sure I’m not the only person in this business who would like to have that list.
And I’m so tired of hearing that the people supporting bans on individuals who have perpetrated certain crimes are “little people” -who have never shown or don’t know the “scene” at the upper levels. Those who feel they ARE the Upper Level should get over themselves. Perception IS NOT REALITY.
Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
Anthem, you were the one telling the rest of us to encourage him. I simply was attempting to point out that most people perform acts of kindness and charity without encouragement.
Got it, now I read what you’re saying…
OK-poor choice of words…perhaps not ‘encouragement’, maybe just less ‘criticism’…and just maybe acknowledgement…
Originally posted by harryjohnson:
The petitioners have the same right to protest the reinstatement as Mr. Valliere has to apply for it.
Perhaps, but only IF those petitioning are actually members of the very organization they’re petitioning against. 
I hope some of the lawyers on the BB will chime in, but maybe it could be worded something like this:
“We, the signers of this petition, believe that Paul Valliere should not be reinstated due to violations of USEF Rules forbidding banned members from entering USEF-sanctioned horse shows. Mr. Valliere was witnessed on the grounds at ________ horse show, _________horse show, and ________horse show, (with dates.) Notarized affidavits attached.”
I knew Chuck a million years ago…quite well I thought 
Oh yes Radio…she was found very guilty, rest assured.
Did Dana Tripp get to keep her veterinary license after falsifying EIA tests, having “knowledge” of the horrible death awaiting Streetwise and unreported income from these acts? God, I hope not.
radio: I’m honored 
You go Thongpenders!!! 
As it applies to this topic specifically, I believe that it is possible to forgive and still be oppossed to re-instatement. JMHO
Snowy, I was wondering if they could make saddlepads with the logo?
Originally posted by big dawg:They have a right under the rules that govern us to petition to be readmitted as members…heaven forbid any of you have ever done anything wrong and have to ask for someone’s forgiveness…I would hope you receive better than you are willing to dish out.
I absolutely agree they have a right to petition to be readmitted as members, just as we have the right to oppose that readmittance. I am continually surprised that for some, forgiveness seems equal to thinking it never happened.
Exhibitors ARE on USEF showgrounds, and they are claiming he is their trainer, and thanking him for their success. Is that not for his reputation?
Oh! my and how did you manage to find a keyboard without a shift key? If you look carefully there are two on every keyboard. One is next to Z and the other is next to the ?.
It’s said that the true measure of a man’s character is what he does when nobody is looking.
Integrity is not a value that someone can develop because of external pressure; it’s intrinsic. If it wasn’t there in PV before, I highly doubt it’s there at the deepest, most natural level now. Strong moral character is not something you wear like a coat of armor just to protect you from further criticism and scrutiny, though I suspect it’s being used that way.
PV has been under the microscope for the last ten years. During that time his behavior has suggested (according to his supporters anyway) that he is on the up and up. However, he knows the sport is watching. None of us, no matter how well we know him, can answer with absolute certainty what he would do if he knew there would be no circumstances.
You can engage in respectable behavior because you know it’s expected of you, but it’s a rare bird who truly changes at the core of his being. Tookie Williams, the Crips founder who was just put to death in CA, published anti-gang books and actively shared his ‘changed ways’ with the public. Yet he never admitted guilt. Perhaps it’s because he truly didn’t do it, perhaps it’s because he wasn’t really remorseful; I don’t know and I don’t want to get into a debate about him here. But I don’t think PV has publicly and freely spoken about how wrong it is to electrocute horses, now has he? I’ve never seen any evidence of public behavior on his part that says “wow, I really did some horrible things to those horses.” If he’s not showing that on the surface, I can’t gain confidence that he’s changed deep down where it counts.
The people who train with PV have made their choices and it’s their business. I have no right, and frankly would not want the right, to restrict their ability to train with PV. To have that power would be truly scary if each of us only thinks about it. Via our legal system, he’s paid his official dues and our country thankfully ensures we don’t have the right to overstep that other than by choosing to do business elsewhere. That said, I think that the USEF has a larger responsibility to draw a line that says it puts the welfare of the horse above all else. It’s not so much a statement against PV personally as it is an affirmation that the organization considers some behaviors unforgiveable. How much more unforgiveable can you get than a horrific, deliberate and deadly crime against the creature which built the sport in the first place?
Furthermore, I think the hurtful things that were said to the poster whose husband passed away (sorry I can’t recall her name) were unbelievably rude. I’m sorry that happened and it derailed much of the credibility of this whole petition effort. I for one am embarrassed that someone would stoop so low in what really should have remained an intellectual, thought provoking discussion.
My only case is FORGIVENESS.
I just wish people would stop for one second, and take thier feet off this man’s neck long enough for him to BE SORRY.
You have to give people a CHANCE.
There is not one person on this board who hasn’t screwed upin some way in their life, and not been offered a chance to make amends.
Perhaps our mistakes werent as incomprehensible, or made public, but we have all been granted forgiveness at one point.
Try it folks…it makes YOU a better person.
How hard is it for anyone to make a public agology for something that has become so public?
I am willing to listen to any one of the convicted horse killers come forward and make a public apology.
I always apolgize if I am wrong whether to my family, friends or co workers. It really isn’t hard if you know you have done wrong.
It would be really interesting to find out, who - if anyone - is willing to insure or insuring horses either owned by Paul or in Paul’s care, custody & control these days
I remember when a couple of insurance agencies told me that they would no longer insure horses going into some of the Chicago area barns or into Barney’s. But I wonder what folks like Shawna Deitrich or Ernie Oare would have to say on this issue right about now.
So, anthem, there’s a question that can be asked without being inflammatory: where does your insurance company stand? Are your horses insured and do they know your horses are under Paul’s care, custody and control? How about mwe?
On another note: Yes, Nancy Banfield did slip through and we should be ashamed that happened. I am wondering for the show managers (Snowy) if it is possible - should more folks be reinstated - to refuse their entries. I know Dolores Swan wouldn’t have a problem with it. But would any other show manager step up and be willing to make that kind of stand. I mean, WEF is refusing entries from an “R” judge who complained about them putting up new stabling tents behind her property! (It’s on another thread.) Does that even compare to this? Could we (the No REIN people) lobby them? Just a thought.
And, anthem, if you are getting awful emails, do forward them to Erin or another moderator. That is part of what they are here for. You are sticking up for your friend in the face of all odds and I hope Paul appreciates it. I don’t agree with you and personally would never give Paul a dime or the time of day ever again, but we’ve all had friends our parents disapproved of or other friends didn’t like. You obviously can take the heat, so stay in the kitchen if you like. Just beware of getting burnt.
Harry, you may also be interested in “The Gnostic Gospels.” I read it a few years ago and found it fascinating and thought provoking.
Indeed his sentence cannot be changed after it was handed down, not in the legal system. The USEF suspension however, did give him right to apply for reinstatement. In all of it’s ambiguity, the terms with which the reinstatement shall occur are not laid out cast in stone. Thus, with a convincing appeal, he will make it in. I think, as I have said before, that there is egg on the face of USEF, due to the fact that he has complied with the letter and not the spirit of the law. I do agree that showing remorse is not a condition of reinstatement, he has shown none, other than the remorse that he was caught. Other than that, it has been business as usual for him, it is significant in my book however, that Pete Rose has yet to make it back into the graces of the baseball commission, but I truly believe that Mr. Valliere will make it back in to the horse show world on his first go round.
OK, people, dragging this thread rather forcibly BACK ON TOPIC b/c I don’t want Erin to lock it… One thing I’d loff to have on the web site is a calendar of who is eligible to apply for reinstatement when. Can anybody help with that?
One thing I’m still confuzzled about is whether Barney Ward is eligible to apply for reinstatement on 8/29/2009 or whether the subsequent injunction overrides that. Anyone know?
Thanks for any help…
It states, N. Smithfield, R.I as Acres Wild Farm, Sheila H. The farm is active, and thats why my question. He is listed as suspended. The farm is not.
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