Originally posted by Yours Truly:
It is futile to discuss how we wish someone would feel. Remorse, regret, sorrow, guilt–these are feelings that come from within. Asking for an apology is similarly futile. The only genuine apology is one given of free will.
So well said!
Originally posted by blubays:
What did Nancy Banfield do? Inquiring minds want to know.
She arranged for the death of Rub the Lamp
Originally posted by ss3777:
I also found this information on the faculty web page:
Linda Kossick Langmeier
Head Riding Instructor
At Walker’s since 2001
I beleieve Linda Kossick is a former student of PV.
I’ve never been a fence sitter either Snowbird. In the case I’ve been involved with for the past 7 years I can not begin to tell you how many people said things like “Well I won’t do any business with them but I don’t want to send a letter” to help the DOJ stop their criminal activities. It just amazes me when people continue to complain about things going on in the horse industry but will not step up to the plate to help make a difference. I’m sure they would be singing a different tune if they or their horse were victims.
Jr Jumper: Dear Harry doesn’t get defensive. What Harry does is state the facts. The facts are, horses died, these people did it, and therefore, should not be reinstated to the USEF. It’s that simple. You can defend him all day long, but it’s you then who has to put your head on the pillow at night knowing you come on here and defend a known horse killer.
Thanks, Snowbird for addressing my question but are you saying that the current USEF turns a proverbial blind eye because they’re concerned about retribution?
Admittedly, I don’t understand all the rules for a suspended person but am reading the last few pages here to understand them.
I’ll take my toes out of here now - it’s too hot for me 
Originally posted by BaliBandido:
… I really don’t think there is a witch hunt in progress here, however I think unless it can be verified as to the alleged continual illegal activity of PV or anyone he may employ- one should tread carefully. We all may ‘know’ this is happening- but until it can be documented it doesn’t matter. The problem with catching someone who is doing something they know is wrong is that they go to great lengths to hide it. That can take the form of ‘selling’ a horse to someone for $1, and saying ‘hey, I don’t own the horse- they bought him’, yeah technically that is true- but we all ‘know’ that it is not. There are many ways to make it seem like you are technically following the rules, when you are violating the hell out of the intent of those rules, it is everywhere- little loopholes in the system. I always think that the presence of such maneuvers actually is indicative of someones guilt, why work so hard to create a false situation unless the real one is not allowed? Why hide something if you have done nothing wrong?
OK, just to jump in here for a minute, I have to disagree that there isn’t a witch hunt going on - and it’s actually more like a lynch mob than a witch hunt.
Someone leasing or buying a horse from a suspended member is not violating the law, or even the rules. A suspended member is not violating the law or the rules by leasing or selling a horse to someone. I agree that it is a violation of the INTENT of the rules to sell someone a horse for a dollar so that they can show it - but that’s what happens when rules are made and worded a specific way to try to create organization amongst chaos - people will find ways around them. Violating an intent is not viloating a rule or law - and if you don’t like it, figure out a way to get the rule rewritten so it doesn’t happen again. Running through the town with torches yelling “monster” not only doesn’t work, it only applies to one monster.
I am truly amazed and a bit sickened that so many people are spending so much time and energy berating one person for something he did 10 years ago that was horrible and criminal - which he admitted was horrible and criminal, and has apologized for, and paid for as best he can according to the standards set by the organization that suspended him - as well as through community service. It puts him in a category with other offenders and criminals, some who have been released from prisons and are hoping to make the world a better place with their second chance.
But the real witch hunt is the going after the people who have leased his horses. They are not criminals - they are not engaging in criminal activity - and if they choose to deal with someone with a suspended membership and a dark past then that’s their perogative.
I know that showing a horse purchased by a suspended member is not against any rules. If showing a horse leased by a suspended member is against the rules then I’m not aware of it, and chances are neither are any of the people who leased the horses - and if it IS against the rules, then let the USEF deal with it.
Don’t let the Big “Fawg’s” fool you!
'Here is an idea for PV. Maybe he could rescue a few OTTBs from the meat truck, train them to have a useful career, and sell them for a low price - just to cover their purchase expense. You know, nice litte local show hunters for pony club kids. Sure, it would take his time, and he wouldn’t be making judges or BNT fees for it, but quality training will always help those unfortunate horses to find a home. Unless he would have a problem training a less than stellar talented horse…hmm oh yeah, he already had a problem with his ability to do that ’
Fairfiew
That would mean more to me than a few dollars tossed to ‘noteworthy’ places. He would be saving at risk horses, and with his talents, that all his supports say he has, he can find them meaningful jobs.
Originally posted by Equit8tor:
“less ‘criticism’” of what?
and “acknowledgement” of what?
“Criticism” of any or all efforts to TRY to make amends?
“Acknowledgement” that there have been several ocassions that he has actually given more then just money…
I think the coast is clear.
Let the wild rumpus begin!
If that is something which can be proved, one would think the USEF would take a very dim view of this. As far as the rules go, suspended person’s horses cannot be shown. So, maybe the class was on an Off day? Thus the bend? 
Originally posted by shade:
For ANY of them to be re-instated they would have to do a heck of alot more than “attempt” to contribute. A couple of things come to mind. Maybe taking in a couple of rescue horses, taking on a poor barn rat and giving them the opportunity they would never have had, volunteering at a horse rescue or theraputic facility. I would look for contributions to the horse community that are not in the mainstream, donating your lesson money does not constitute contributing to the horse community. I just don’t see where any of them have given back to the horse community. All they have done is make money for themselves. I am not singling out PV, I am talking about ALL of them. But PV is up to APPLY for reinstatement very soon so he unfortunately is at the center of this issue. I do commend PV for his efforts to help the animals of the hurricane. But I also know there are many many other horsemen that gave their time in the effort also.
Shade-all terrfic ideas…
One thing though…AWF did not travel South as early as planned this year as the barn in FLorida was filled to capacity with equine refugees from the hurricane.
This was neither ‘published’ or ‘promoted’ by anyone.
Really, he IS Trying. Only good can come out of his efforts, why not let him keep trying without taking apart and attacking his every attempt?
Originally posted by xegeba:
[and am I asking a legitimate question? is that being difficult? Clearly… I’m not coming up with a good answer… so help me out. Stop assuming that i’m trying to trap you. This issue has no right answer…no happy ending.
Okay, I’ll give you that- it has been a long thread! I guess I wonder if the fact that there was a way ‘out’ so to speak by having the insurance money made this whole situation possible in the first place. Not that insurance isn’t a good thing, but had it not been there maybe the prices would not have been so inflated to start, then the pressure of explaining why horse was not acting like a big $ horse, then coming up with a solution to make the situation resolve.
If there was no way to get your money out of a horse by killing it for insurance- would the impetus been there to first buy an animal that earned its pricetag and then find a way to resell it when it no longer fit you.
I know my clients always want to know if what we are buying will hold a good value for resale.
You are right of course- there are no good answers. It seems like whenever a loop hole is closed, someone finds another one to exploit. Leaves the good guys always behind the ball.
Thank you GoldCoast. Dear God, I cannot believe she would attempt to regain her veterinary license…Have you ever SEEN the FBI tape of Streetwise’s death? It’ll haunt you to your grave, and she did jumping jacks to arrange these things. Word.
Show mom- please tell me how to write off a horse??
Perhaps someone can inspire the Mr. Valliere, with all his works of charity on behalf of animals to donate!
Originally posted by Snowbird:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>What rules is he bending?
Hiring a proxy to take his place is bending the rules. Using cell phones and radios to keep in touch and answer questions for the proxy trainer is tap dancing around the rules.
PV knows full well the intention of the rules is to prevent suspended persons from participating. The above is bending the rules to the edge of them snapping in his face. The new rules threaten to punish anyone who rides to the credit or benefit of a suspended trainer or horse owner. Those juniors who rode horses he owned even for free have been jeopardized and could be penalized themselves. Is that the way of one of the “best” trainers?
For anyone to consider that PV judge an unrecognized Equitation Class on grounds that are USEF approved for a 24 hour day is bending the rules. He is not permitted on those grounds while they are sanctioned by USEF whether or not rated classes are being offered. The sanctioning of USEF says from Midnight to midnight for each day.
That is not a good example for anyone to give to those who are looking up to emulate the “great” and “famous”. Whether a young trainer or a young exhibitor.
Again, PV had to be caught before he withdrew as a judge from that Equitation Class. Not good sportsmanship even this year.
I’d like to repeat what Harry said; it is not just PV it is everyone that has been convicted or confessed or both who should not be a Member in Good Standing. I think it is as offensive that a man still sitting in jail for fraud against a horse owner, or many horse owners is a Member in Good Standing of the Federation.
I am equally offended that Joe Plemmons can on national TV admit he shot Helen Brach in the head and disposed of the body for money and be a member in Good Standing. Welcomed at our Premiere Show Circuit to sell horses to more unsuspecting clients.
Paul Valiere has his name on this petition because he is due for “Reinstatement”. Since the administration ignored my mail requesting that Joe Plemmons be banned we have every reason to be suspicious.
I sent the Executive Director the link to the TV show where he made his outrageous confessions. I have never even had the courtesy of a reply. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, Snowbird, it is NOT bending the rules.
Acres Wild Farm is operating fully within the laws as defined by the USEF.
Paul is NOT participating in any USEF event.
He can and does continue to train students who choose to train with him on private property.
As far as judging the Equitation class, which year are you referring to?
And Anthem, you know I applaud the fact that you HAVE been civil throughout all of our discussions, despite the fact that we are completely on opposite sides of the fence. I must say that is refreshing, considering the posts we have seen.
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