The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[Midge]

First of all, forgiveness does not equal the reacquirement of all past rights and priveleges. Forgiveness is much more about the person doing the forgiving than it is about the person being forgiven. I can forgive the doctor who ruined my friend’s life, but it doesn’t mean I think he should be allowed to practice medicine.

It is also my personal opinion that RP was not the first horse Paul had killed. I believe it was the first time he was caught.

Lastly, as recounted elsewhere on one of these threads, I have encountered Paul in other situations and he did nothing to endear himself to me then, either.

I have no doubt your barn is a happy, cheerful place. After all, you all share the exact same moral code. The children following the Pied Piper of Hamlin were also all glad to do it.

[filly3]

Cool. So that means if the USEF does the right thing and rejects any re-instatement, we can expect all the horse killer sympathizers, supporters and suck-butts to renounce their membership? That would be a real step in the right direction.

[Snowbird]

No! you say those who stay are a suck-butt and I say that those who stay are like a burr under the saddle. Irritating and uncompromising stroking the escape mechanism of a horse to escape from the irritant.

[Sherry]

Originally posted by anthem35:
If that is your definition of ‘the purpose’, can you at least acknowledge the fact that PV did spend weeks and weeks in Louisiana after the hurricane to help rescue horses and other pets?

Can you at least recognize what, in your own words was ‘an attempt to contribute in a way to show remorse’?

Many people helped with the animals (and people) in LA and MS after Katrina. Most did it because it was what we wanted to do and didn’t want (or care about) any publicity about what we were doing. Yes, PV did help out but it makes me wonder if he did it for the same reason many others did it or did he do it just to “score points”?

[CBoylen]

C.Boylen you can’t have it both ways.

The only way I want it is the correct way. Your explanation of tax practices was incorrect for most of the horse-owning population. I’m not arguing anything other than facts.

[Erin]

Let me attempt to impress something upon you people.

Those of you who are anti-reinstatement are seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY jeopardizing your privilege to post about this topic here. It is not my job to sit by my computer 24/7 and make sure that you all are behaving like rational adults. If this topic cannot continue in an adult manner – i.e. in a respectful tone that adults would use when sitting across a table from each other – it WILL NOT CONTINUE.

Exactly how much good are you going to do the no-reinstatement cause by getting the thread closed and getting the subject permanently banned from the COTH BB? Hmm?

A select few of you are going to ruin it for everyone if you keep it up. If you’re not capable of posting on this thread without being catty and overly dramatic, don’t post. Leave it to the more level-headed people to argue the case, because otherwise, NO ONE will be allowed to argue it.

I am getting very tired of constantly issuing the same warnings to the same people.

[ponymom64]

mwe - you are a judge? and sit on a USEF committee? I am even more shocked that you would think that “that was what was done” …not only think it but actually say it

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

And how would he prove that? Just curious.

Too bad they can’t “catch” one of the clients, and convince them to wear a wire

hmmm THAT sounds familiar

[Jane]

Originally posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens:
I would like to add that someone named on the “horse welfare” committee of USHJA should have a very difficult time backing someone who was found guilty of killing a horse with the intent of collecting an insurance premium.

What did you mean by “backing”?

[poltroon]

Snowbird wins for having a USEF number with only 4 digits. I was pretty surprised to see that there are 7 digit numbers now!

[Snowbird]

In as much as I sent the film clip and Joe Plemmons made his confession on national TV. He confessed to killing a horse owner because she was going to the DA to have them all prosecuted.

I received no answer at all from John Long or anyone from USEF in response to my suggestion of the rules that could be used to immediately ban him from any USEF show even until he had a hearing.

Now, if someone who was essentially unsavory to say the least…and the court ruled the AHSA the had a right to ban unsavory characters from their shows if that did not get any reaction! Would you not wonder if others would be afraid they might wind up like Helen Brach by the same people?

I hope that satisfies as an answer as to why no one has enforced the existing rules Boston Chicken.

[Lori_B]

And that’s where we part company, racetb. Years of friendly association with those parties is not something I regard as relevant. Tragic and conflicting, but not relevant. If there were facts that called into question their participation in the crimes, those I would regard as relevant. So far, no such facts have been offered.

People sometimes have a frightening ability to compartmentalize their actions and attitudes. With one group of interactions, they are lovely, kind, well-behaved. With another: quite different. The ability to do this sudden and complete change of face does not make the person less blameworthy for their misdeeds. Sorry.

Also don’t understand why folks are suddenly so deferential to the organization, saying we should let them make decisions for us poor dopes. If this were some fine point of rules about points or classes or fences or whatever, fine, yes, leave it to the professionals. But this is not such a case.

[scout33]

Okay thanks, that helps.

[Snowbird]

I don’t think we’d be allowed to do that. That is strictly Chronicle space and I am certain they wouldn’t appreciate the inquiry because they as a press would not want to take sides.

You certainly are welcome to post the link on all your sites or anywhere you think is pertinent. We can use more sales. I didn’t get your order yet; if you want bracelets just post me there; any number doesn’t matter just want to see them out.

[Boberry]

Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Either did I… what did Chanda say?

Well, since you’re all so interested, Chanda said roughly the following, after being totally incensed at the treatment of another poster by a group of people on the “other” thread, and called out by name by Boberry to give an opinion:

There is no power on this earth that could force me to put my name to a piece of paper touted and signed by people who recently made light of the death of a good friend of mine, for the purpose of embarrassing and hurting his widow.

I like Paul, and I respect his right to apply for reinstatement. I respect the rights of his friends, customers, employees and riders to make their own decisions, and I call many of them friends. For that very reason, I feel my personal opinion should have no influence on the subject of his reinstatement. It falls, and should fall, under the impersonal decision making process of our national governing body. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One or two people said some things that were in poor taste so the entire matter is not worth the time. Cocktails at 5.

[Erin]

Why don’t you try that post again, anthem… keeping in mind that you must be nice, polite and respectful.

If you do as poor a job on your next post as you did on the previous one, you’ll earn yourself a two-week no-expenses paid vacation OFF the BB.

[Andrew]

As a member of that committee, I personally concern myself with issues and conditions that currently affect horse welfare.

Sweetie… what about the ones that were executed???

[Snowbird]

Duffy try using masking tape and spray paint. I think white out is water soluable.

[Hopeful_Hunter]

sarabeck…

For those who are NOT part of PV’s current boarders and students, it’s not necessarily easy to get the information you’ve requested. He does work out of Acres Wild Farm – but whether or not he is the “legal” owner I cannot say. There are many, many ways to create layers of legal distance between actual owners and paper owners, and we don’t know how PV has constructed his ownership and/or interest in the operation.

It could well be that no one actually, within the very specific technical fine-print scope of the language, “works” for PV directly. I DO NOT KNOW. It could be that the trainers employed technically work elsewhere. Again, I don’t know.

I can tell you that PV has not spoken to several reporters who have tried to get DIRECT information from him – information of the kind you seem to want. That is his right, certainly.

But sarabeck, there is NO question – and we have enough posters who have personally reported lessons, training, boarding and current relationships with PV to “prove” this – that PV IS currently in the horse business and seemingly doing well with it, at the highest levels. THAT is what does not sit well with many of us.

See, at least for me, I have a problem with someone who has been proven guilty of - let’s use language you might prefer - manipulating they system being allowed to continue to use it. Michael Milliken can’t trade anymore, you know, and no living being died from his actions.

Only in the horse world do we seem willing to accept activities which in other professions get one banned for life. I’m not willing to accept that, and maybe if more of us felt the same we could see a renewal of emphasis on the fun of the sport, and on the welfare of our equine partners.

[CBoylen]

Snowbird, if horses are being shown at USEF shows those horses are in good standing with the USEF. No one that rides them is subject to penalty of any kind.