The "NO REINSTATEMENT" thread.

[anthem35]

Originally posted by one_star_or_bust at Aefvue Farms South:
[I]The Perfect Distance[/I] by Kim Ablon Whitney is a work of fiction, but it contains many factual situations and benefits from her insider’s perspective. Kim grew up, rode, and competed in New England during PV’s flourishing career before and during these incidents. Kim placed at the AHSA Medal Finals and USET East Medal Finals in 1992 and competed in the ASPCA Maclay Finals three times. Her years competing in the equitation gave her the insider knowledge to tell the story and bring several important details about this period of equine history to life. She also is a USEF ‘R’ judge in hunters and equitation. Kim would not write a novel referencing these crimes if it wasn’t valuable and important to tell the story, even in a fictionalized way.

During the past two weeks in Wellie,
I have had the pleaseure of having dinner on 3 separate occassions with 3 BIG name judges…
Where I was asked the inevitable question that we all seem get to when meeting newcomers “Who do you train with?”

Each time, upon hearing the I train with Paul, the response was the same.

“Good Man, Great trainer. We will be happy to see him back at the ring”.
In two cases, the trainers and either their children, or family, trained with him currently.

[meadow_lark]

Originally posted by xegeba:
Posted Feb. 13, 2006 12:58 AM

Most horse traders lie about the horses for sale which is why it is still a capital offense to sell a crooked horse and get caught. That’s can be the “death penalty” if anyone chooses to enforce the law still on the book

What are you talking about? Where is it a capital offense to sell? How do you define a “crooked horse”–what is that? And what law is on the book?

Do you just make this stuff up, or what?

[Boberry]

Originally posted by RacetbAefvue FarmBiziz Ltd.:
Thank you GoldCoast. Dear God, I cannot believe she would attempt to regain her veterinary license…Have you ever SEEN the FBI tape of Streetwise’s death? It’ll haunt you to your grave, and she did jumping jacks to arrange these things. Word.

Has anyone seen this tape?

[xegeba]

PV didn’t kill because he needed the money

You were privy to his FS?

[big_dawg]

Originally posted by Saddlebag:
I know PV by reputation only, and have no personal interest in this issue. But I find the direction this thread has taken, well intentioned as it may be, to be just plain scary.

I’m sure the jews in Nazi Germany felt your same level of trepidation.

[shiloh]

quote:
Originally posted by shiloh:
he seems to be the most arrogant and certainly the most unrepentant of the offenders.

Not only was that immature, that was an assumption that really takes the cake. Personal attacks aren’t going to get you anywhere and only make you look like you have a foundationless argument. Bravo to you.

Perhaps I should have added an IMO to that.

I’d love to see him reinstated just so that I can indulge myself on the chaos that will happen among all of you.

Now that was immature.

And yes, we can change things. Maybe we won’t succeed, but to not even try - much worse.

[Esprit]

While I haven’t read every page, I am horrified with the events and the thought of these people returning to the equestrian community which they have betrayed.

Are we able to sign this petition being from Canada? Our horses show in the US - but even if they didn’t, this is one equine community looking out for the welfare of all animals regardless of what association we belong to right?

I’ve signed it in any case, but I would like to pass on the link to other Canadian equestrians should our votes count in this particular case.

[Snowbird]

Well SheilaH in my movies the good guys wear white hats and they always win over the black hats who are the perpetual bad guys. Glad we watch different movies because mine make me feel good.

[Snowbird]

Thanks War Admiral for the clarification but what your saying is that paul valliere was suppose to stop trianing on his own property just because the horse show years later came out next door to him.

No what War Admiral and everyone else is saying is even though is next door and so tempting the rules clearly say that PV as a suspended person may not particpate in said show.

1.h. Exhibiting any horse while in the care, training or custody of a suspended trainer.

1.i.Riding, exhibiting, coaching or training for the benefit, credit, reputation or satisfaction of a suspended person.

Any horse which is boarded on his farm and is cared for by him may not compete in said show. It is devious to hire a proxy trainer for the purposes of them being allowed to show. It doesn’t matter if he uses a cell phone or a radio he is directly communicating and the success of said competitor increases his reputation. He may not benefit from any horse show while suspended and all who participate with him are in violation of the Federation Rules and should be penalized as well.

That does not sound correct or a fault of valliere’s also how is it you know for sure about the walkie talkies. You must have an inside source to be able to think you know about someones telephone conversations.
If that is supposed to be a secret it is without a doubt the worst kept secret in the business. There are threads out here listing HIS equitation riders who are doing well and HIS horses that are doing well and the fact that he cleans stalls in his barn makes every horse there in his care and custody. He has been quoted as bragging that his business has never been better.

Isn’t that illegal? Is your source going to go to the usef and testify in front of the hearing panel and show proof that your petition is correct. That’s going to be hard .
Not when you can document it in written form.

And if paul was eligible almost two years ago and has no plans of trying to get back in why are you not going after people who abuse live horses to stop them.

I think that was the year he planned to judge the Equitation Finals an unrecognized class and he was compelled to change his mind do to public scrutiny.

Even though the class was unrecognized the grounds are USEF sanctioned for 24 hours a day. We know they won’t change that and risk letting someone new get a show date.

I think you would better serve the horse world that way instead of trying to get people excited about something that isn’t really happening. i am still trying to understand all this.it sounds like you are not servng your readers well or the horses that are alive right now that desperately need our help.

Well, you see legally until the horse is dead there is no crime! I think you need to understand that PV has confessed and admitted guilt so there is no question.

[Racetb_Aefvue_Farm_B]

lmao!! You’re good, Bali…and I’m not even on your side of the fence, really…but you’re good …

[Sheila_H]

Originally posted by Snowbird:
Maybe! but then maybe not!

Are you sure about that?

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

I agree SGray.

[Sheila_H]

That I bested my pathetic opponents at any cost!

[Henry]

I agree with Schyler. The amount of energy and negativism in this is incredible.If everyone is so concerned about our beloved equine friends, maybe there should be some of this incredible energy put into protecting our horses from people they see at the showgrounds lunging horses for hours and hours at three in the AM so no one sees, the on-going drug abuse to stay one step ahead of the testers, the unbelieveable practice of withholding water from horses, and, of course the on-going poling of horses when no one’s looking, etc.etc.

[Snowbird]

We are invincible if we have courage. We are the horse shows. Maybe not the “elite” but I don’t think I want to play in their sandbox. Alone none of us can be successful but together as a group we can accomplish everything we dream to make the world better for our horses.

As a bottom feeder I look to see where the horse is happy and what he is comfortable doing. If you find that you can have a star both rider and horse. It’s when you over reach that all the evil things happen. A family loves everyone some are smarter some are prettier but they are all family. I do the same with students. What horses love is to teach. They teach manners and sportsmanship and love and respect for each person. They help the helpless and and have a contest with the know-it-alls. That’s why I love them.

It is wrong to misuse them. The people who do are as cruel as those who abuse the less talented, the less intelligent and the less beautiful people.

[BaliBandido]

Originally posted by JuniorJumper01:
I understand the moral turmoil of it all, but it’s not morals or principals that are going to get you anywhere.

Ironic isn’t it that the very same mindset is what got PV et al where they are today.

I’m not sure where there is moral turmoil- the thing with morality is it the line is usually pretty clear between moral and immoral behavior. I don’t think there has been disagreement on either side of the issue that what PV et did was immoral, illegal, unethical, cruel, depraved, corrupt and self serving. I understand it is difficult to reconcile the PV that you and others may know whom you have had pleasant dealings with, who is a talented trainer and instructor with the PV that arranged a ‘hit’ on a horse. However, by all accounts PV was charming and talented before so I am not sure how one could conclusively say he is a changed man now.

What makes what he and others did so repulsive and sordid is the fact that they had so many other ways to get out from ‘under’ these horses, they had other options, they had the contacts to get the horse placed somewhere else if only they had not placed their own ego above the value of a life.

Do I think he will do it again- not likely, but that in and of itself does not justify reinstating him. Just as with other convicted criminals, there are rights and privledges that are forever lost once you cross over the line. He has not been stripped of his right to earn his living in the industry; and is according to many posters doing quite well in that regard. However the privledge(not the right) of being a member in good standing in an organization that claims to promote sportsmanship and the expectation of fair treatment and responsibilty to these animals is a privledge he forfeited when he of his own free will chose to engineer the death of one of those animals. There are some consequences that follow you forever, he knew that then, he took the chance, bad decision- but clearly a decision- now he lives with the result.

Personal responsibility - there should be more of it.

[MIKES_MCS]

ATT: HARRYJOHNSON AND SNOWBIRD, If you are going to be writing an article on th egrass roots movement to prevent Horse Killers form being reinstated by the USEF could you please send me a copy I would like to submitt it to our Local Horsey publication. It covers the Michigan and Indiana Local Horse Show scene. I think they would publish it and it would get to the people you are talking about, the grass roots of the midwest… Perhaps you yourselves could get in touch with thier editors.
Equine Times

What about the Plaid Horse magazine, has anyone contacted them, Doesn’t thier editor post on this board?The Plaid Horse

[BaliBandido]

Originally posted by xegeba:
now THAT was a straight answer.

I think their are people who think both the situation of sending a horse to slaughter and killing one for insurance purposes are wrong. I don’t see the need to compare one to the other in terms of which is more wrong.

The methods used to kill for insurance are not any more or less humane in many ways then the slaughter house, both are terrible.

I am not sure why you feel the need to detract from this issue, which most agree is heinous by comparing it to slaughter or chastising people becuase they are passionate about this issue. I am not sure if you think people should spend less time on this and more time on the slaughter issue, but just because one posts here does not mean they do not also give their time and effort to the issues involved with horse slaughter.

Unfortunatly, there is a lot of ignorence in the horse world at all levels, there are those who still think of them as property and there are those who have no option other than sending a horse to slaughter. Now you may say there are always options, but we all know that sometimes that is not true. there are those people who can not afford to have one put down, disposed of or buried due to finances etc- what do you tell them? Should they let it die and just rot? If they can’t afford to feed it, put it down do they just let it starve?

Although I hate the thought of it, and know firsthand how horrible the feeling, smell, sounds etc of these places are, as well as the ride to and fro- some of these horses that are there and who will be dead in 24 hours, will be spared the horrors that can await them in the hands of ignorent people, those who can not afford to feed them or care for them etc. I have often seen horses that were in a situation that they would have been better off dead. Those who indure the daily abuse, hunger and pain that is visited on them by uneducated or uncaring individuals.

I understand your rage at people who dump animals, abandon them due to inconvience etc- I feel the same way and I am one of the dopes pulled over on the side of the road trying to coax some stray into my truck before it gets killed (always have snauseges with me!) and have even been the one with the camera and video trying to gather evidence to be used in abuse/neglect situations. So I really do see where you are coming from- but these are two separate issues, equally horrifying, neither worse than the other, but different. I think we all do what we can, where we can. That is a good thing.

In a perfect world none of this would be happening.

[scout33]

Question- does anyone know that PV has in fact started his appeal to the USEF to apply for reinstatement?

Note: the “PR ads” issued in the Chronicle were done by clients, not PV. He does not have a team of hired PR staff

[slainte]

Harry - your posts have made me sick since the original thread.

Anyhow, please excuse my misprint. I meant “out of date information”. My typing isn’t so hot. Mid WEF has me tired and away from my computer and with my horses…