Er, Devildog? Unless I’m badly mistaken, Jep is continuing to show this horse “though he’ll prob never be more than a 4’ horse now.”
Poor best friend.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucassb:
Tiramit, you might want to check out “Equine Drugs and Vaccines, A Guide for Owners and Trainers,” written by Eleanor Kellon, VMD. My copy was published in 1995 and has been a fantastic reference, as it gives both the trade name as well as the generic, discusses the action of the drug, typical usage, possible side effects, duration of effect etc. It also contains information about what class each drug is, and (per rules circa mid 90s) whether the drug is permitted under a variety of competition rules.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Many thanks, Lucassb! I’ve been searching for a drug reference book for years, but haven’t stumbled across that one yet. That sounds like what I’ve been wanting. Wonder if it has been updated? To my frustration, most vet books seem to offer an overly simplified description of only the most common drugs (yes, I know banamine is good for colic 
). I’ll have to check out Dr. Kellon’s book - any excuse to add to my collection! 
Hoopoe, I will google and bookmark the link and look for Donald Plumb’s Handbook! Thank you! 
…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
…My goal used to be to do A hunters, but really, what I hear is beginning to turn me off…
The witchy witch witch of south central NC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can look at it that way. Or you can look at the fact that this thread is now 69 pages long and consider that many people are quite concerned about this–that’s a good thing. Even though a number of BNTs were busted lately, most weren’t. I have to believe that the majority would never consider drugging horses for performance to be an acceptable practice.
Also, it’s a sad fact that drugging horses didn’t start with and most likely won’t end with A show hunters. You’ll find bad eggs in every discipline and at every level.
I a lot of ways, the recent suspensions have opened my eyes in a sad way. Some of those on the list I considered very much to be the good guys. But I guess, should I ever look for a new trainer, that I’ll just have to be tougher and more skeptical in the questions I ask and the oversight I give to my horse’s care and training.
“Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.” – Thomas A. Edison
EPM seems to have run rampant through the ranks of horses that I know were given dex on a regular basis.
I have used dex for 2 things- hives & to save my old horse’s life. I will keep it in my med box for the latter reason, because if I had not had it right then, he most likely would have died of a head injury.So, I can attest for its VERY powerful anti-inflammatory properties. All it took was 6ccs IV-per the vet’s orders until he could get there.It did save his life- I think a worthwhile use of dex.
As for hives, Lio gets Benadryl at home when he gets a bad reaction, otherwise, just a spritz with my Aveeno oatmealbath & Healthy Hair coat moisturizer concoction.
LordHelpus- I would believe anything Don told me,too. What a great guy.
Welcome to the discussion, Linda.
You’ve touched on something that’s been rattling around in my brain: Maybe we are simply asking too much of our horses these days. The reality of the pounding and miles we put on them at weeklong show after weeklong show may simply be increased drug use.
At the risk of sounding like one of the ancient-timers 
, I can remember when the old “big” A-circuit in Southern California consisted of Indio in February – a five-day show held during the county fair (or, more correctly, the National Date Festival 
); Channel City in Santa Barbara about six weeks later; then the Del Mar National in June; the Horse and Flower back in Santa Barbara in August; the Forum in early fall, then back to Santa Barbara for the big Thanksgiving show. Along the way, if you were so inclined, you could go to some Flintridges, Foxfields, up to Northern California, to Yuma … but, basically, the horses got breaks between shows and weren’t campaigned year-round. Their season ended after the Thanksgiving show (or before if you headed east) and didn’t resume until February.
All in all, I think it was a happier time. 
***** Yes, Dr. Laura, I am my horses’ mom!*****
Elizabeth –
Lameness --> drugs --> why? --> bad shoeing --> what is good shoeing?
“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LucianCephus:
Well, apparently the “Texas trainer” has stepped forward<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe he can finally get married…
My story is in the New York Times!
http://www.nytimes.com/uwire/uwire_TQED110720031291208.html?ex=1146286800&en
MHM…you can’t. I didn’t say that you can really know. But some look dull, and others don’t. Hours on the longe line isn’t any better for the horse than drugs…in fact, it it can be worse! And sometimes you can get a clue by seeing who is hopping up and down like an idiot at the back gate…especially if the horse is dull!
I just wouldn’t feel as important without my radio/walky-talky!!
>>It’s not bragging if you can back it up!<<
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adelita:
So really, when IS Bute acceptable? I know there is a form to fill out when you are showing a horse on a small amount of Bute. But in what circumstances can that be justified?
If my mare needs to be on one gram or two grams of Bute, I shouldn’t be showing her. But some do…what sort of pain/injuries justify showing on Bute? And don’t people feel weird turning in the drug form?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bute, at a H/J show, does not require a form. I think you have an exagerated idea of what one or two grams of bute is going to do. It is not going to make a lame horse sound. It is, however, going to prevent a horse whose feet get a little ouchy from jumping on the footing in the showring from shortening its stride. Little sorenesses, and I repeat, not LAMEnesses, can make a big difference to the way a horse goes.
To familiarize yourself with the guidelines for legal drugs, go to equestrian.org, downloads, drugs and medications area, and click on the link for ‘practical advice’.
Portia, Lauriep - I am so with you! Let’s have a little spice to our hunters. Let them be real horses - I wouldn’t want to hunt anything that wasn’t aware of what’s going on around it. Playing in the corners is not a fault (if it’s not an excessive buck!) and teaching our riders to deal with a forward ride should be commonplace. Let’s stop setting up lines that call for the “perfect” stride and set courses that allow 1) forward horses to continue to canter forward and 2) smaller strided horses to add a step and jump well - not run and jump flat.
Let’s call for our judges to change their view a bit and see horses for the wonderful lively animals they are - not the machines we have made them.
There is an inherent difference between ths for whom horses are “what they chose to spend thier money on” and those for whom horses are “the way they make their living”.
Spending 8 years “getting it” is fine for the first, but a bad businesws decision for the second.
Doesn’t do any good to say the pros “should” make bad buisness decisions. If they did they wouldn’t stay pros.
BUT within the constraints of “good business decisions” we need to provide a “level playing field” and protect the horses from the use of drugs with long term negative side effects.
I agree that the REAL solution is to change the judging criteria so that there is nothing to be gained by tranquilizing, etc. a horse.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sbt78lw:
I really wish the list would include WHY the people have been suspended. A barn in my area, along with its owner and all her horses, has been suspended. I really wonder what she did. Did she forget to pay some bills, or did she do something terrible? No one will ever know whether she’s a horse abuser or just down on her luck. In the interest of consumer advocacy, I think the offenses should be made public. Perhaps then, getting suspended wouldn’t be just a slap on the wrist. 
Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The reason is given in the “next” issue of “Horse Show”, now called “Equestrian”.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brai
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I’m not sure that everyone understands the fact that the sale or purchase of just one horse, or the gain or loss of just one customer can make or RUIN someone in this business. Protecting their home and family and business from financial ruin. Murders have been committed over less than that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Y’know, Chanda - take a look at the latest unemployment figures in this country. There are PLENTY of people facing ruin. Are they murdering their bosses and sabotaging the investments of their former employers? No, they are not. Every lawyer on this board, every vet on this board, every stockbroker or investment banker on this board, anybody here who is in a professional and/or service industry, I can guarantee you, has lost at least one very lucrative client over the course of his/her career, and I can guarandadgumteeya that not ONE of them has ever committed murder for it.
I’m getting really tired of reading your rationalizations and excuses for these people’s behavior. 
Horse trainers, if anything, need to be held even MORE accountable for their own actions than Joe Q. Citizen does - because they hold a fiduciary position where people trust valuable investments to them.
“No horse with cart horse blood inside three crosses can stand an extreme test against horses bred for Epsom Downs and the Metairie Course…”
–Marguerite Bayliss, The Bolinvars
You mis-read my point about the car. I do check my oil and maintain my car properly. My point was that my CAR doesn’t have feelings and won’t be “hurt” if I don’t check the oil.
My husband ruined his scout by not checking the oil, and no one was hurt but him for being a moron. Just because you don’t put oil in your car doesn’t mean that you are going to cause an accident. There are MANY more ways you are more likely to cause an accident than lack of oil!
Chanda, I think you will make a great trainer, and I think we need more of people like you around!
Here are the Devilpups!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87
I un-clog my nose at you, you brightly coloured, mealy-templed, cranberry-smelling, electric donkey-bottom biter!’
TTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHBBBBBBB!!!
I wonder if it is hard to be perfect all the time?
Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com
Lead, follow, or get out of the way…
I think it is safe to say that the Pocket Trainer lobby would discourage the banning of 2 way radios!
But as dogchushu jokingly pointed out, 2 ways are a way of life at h/j shows, and abuse notwithstanding they are pretty critical to the smooth operation of a multi-ring circus, er, horse show. As a person who does self care and hooks up with a trainer at the show, that 2 way has saved my butt on more than one occassion so I would have to side with Pocket Trainer on this one!
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
Nutmeg, I didn’t mean to imply that it was only grooms. You’re right to correct me, and I certainly understand where you’re coming from as well. However, I have been around plenty of grooms with habits just as bad if not worse than those that employ them. It’s unfortunately a widespread abuse.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flshgordon:
I guess maybe I am the only one that doesn’t understand the politics involved in this testing, because I just DO NOT understand how it costs $350 to $600 PER HORSE to drug test a horse!!! Doesn’t anyone else find this to be an absurd figure? Draw blood/collect urine and then send it off to the lab–how does the bill get up to hundreds of dollars?
I’m not saying I won’t pay extra fees at shows, but if they’re going to triple+ my cost of testing fees from $10 to $35 they damn well better be able to say they are getting the problem under control for that figure and making it fair for those of us who actually try to work with our horses instead of drugging them into submission.
“Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one’s horse as he is leaping”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
the costs are due to the fact that the Fed. owns the lab - built the lab - runs the lab - improved the lab… and it’s the only lab in North Amer. certified by the FEI
and I’m sorry that my proposal to up the fees upset you - and it probably wouldn’t stop those that are determined to cheat - but certainly more testing would help
and since you are objecting - I’d like to hear if one class fee is too much then what would be more acceptable to you?
“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
and what is that local h/j site?
“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”
