THE suspension list

There are a ton of BNT’s/NNT’s who do whatever it takes to satisfy the unreasonable expectations of their clients that their horses should be “guaranteed performers” because “$X” was spent to purchase and train them. If you think that “$X” money coming into the barn each month from this type of client doesn’t cloud the judgement of many trainers, you are mistaken. They are all too ready to serve the former clients of trainers who would prefer to educate rather than medicate, and there are a ton of clients who don’t really care about a trainer’s prior reputation or record and instead accept the endorsement of previously “satisfied” customers with whom they are socially or otherwise acquainted. And since the training profession is completely without regulation, prospective clients normally have NO way to check out a trainer’s credentials beyond showring achievements, making these even more valuable to obtain by any means. Suspended trainers are only prohibited from showing, and are well able to make a living from sales, lessons, and developing new prospects during their “vacation time.”

These are the realities of the system, and no amount of justification for using LEGAL medications for the well-being of the horse will ever change the motivations for using other medications that are illegal for those who are willing to do so. The penalties aren’t swift, are unevenly applied, and aren’t widely enough publicized to do much harm to an individual’s business prospects or reputation; witness the many excuses that have beeh held up as justification for illegal drug use, and the reluctance to even consider training methods or moderate show schedules that don’t include resorting to the medicine chest.

I love this topic, it is so interesting…

It seems as though the suspensions are starting to be posted on the USAE list.

Updated for today:
Jeff Ayers 12/1/03-2/28/04
Todd Minikus 12/1/03-2/28/04

It seems these are coming out very slowly…

I’ve tried to stay out of this thread, but now I have a question. Does Don Stewart own all those horses listed? That’s a whole lot of horses…And who is Southern Sales?

lauriep, this was my first post on this thread:

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Another easy way to get on the list is to claim you are a member and fill out the affadavit when you are actually not a member.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone else brought up the whole drug thing. I never insinuated anyone on the list was on the list for drugs. I merely commented on what others posted about drugs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Yep, I used it a grand total of 2 times. It was in 2001, the pollen was so bad you could see it blowing through the air. The rest of the time I use a stocking or vicks, or just dealt with a few head tosses and didn’t get a ribbon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Flash44
This was discussed at the USEA meeting (in the context of a proposed rule change allowing stockings over the nose in eventing dressage. Someone asked David O’Connor how he deals with it, since he has several “headtossers”. He said he teaches them to “rub their noses” on command. If they rub their noses just before entering the dressage ring, they don’t toss their heads during the tests (and the *** and **** tests are close to 10 minutes).

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

I found this quote to be very interesting. Apparently, the H/J industry is not the only one where drugging can be considered “business as usual”. This comes from the evaluating yearlings article from The Blood Horse Magazine
http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/yearling_conformation_pt_one.asp.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ward: I’m going to take this word heart as meaning the real machine, the real muscles. When I’m looking at heart as far as what you think his lung capacity and heart capacity is, horses that have a real wide chest, a real good shoulder, a sloping shoulder, a long range of motion in front, a good flared rib cage, plenty of room to have a big lung and a big heart. The reason I think shoulder and heart go together is the horse’s lungs fill during the stride. You take a horse that has a straight shoulder and a short stride, that lung isn’t going to be able to billow like it should. As far as a horse’s disposition and heart, when you’re looking at them as a yearling, this is an editorial comment: I don’t pay attention to it anymore because I don’t know if they have been medicated for the sale or not. Most of them, if they come out and act all screwy, I figure no one can find enough sedative to slow them so I just walk away from them. That’s a reality. I figure consignors do their job to sell their horses. When you’re buying horses, you have to live on both sides of the street. You have to live on the side that says this is a wonderful horse, and you have to live on the side that says, ‘What is here that I’m not seeing?’ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dana

Friends don’t let friends ride junk!

I agree that there’s ALOT of pressure on the trainers to “make” a horse rideable for the client. Just look at how many talented trainers there are that don’t attract big money clients. Then look at the trainers that can’t teach and find shortcuts; they usually have a bunch of clients!

I don’t think ALL juniors/amateurs really want to learn to ride. Some just enjoy the sport and want to excel at any cost. (Probably not any of us here, since we spend so much of our time discussing our beloved horses!) These types of clients DON’T want to spend the hours it takes in the saddle to learn how to make their horse more supple, quieter down the lines, or just plain soft. They want it done by the trainer, so that when they get on for their class, it’s there.

How can the trainer not feel the pressure?!?!?!?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sit up:

what happened to galloping down to a fence and having your horse jump around it in a wonderful bascule?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That’s what the winners do now!

Pats! Pats! Where have you been?

Sandstone, you seem to be missing a major point. It is against the rules to give any horse any medication with the intent of using it to alter performance. Meaning, even if the drug you give your horse is legal and within the limits, if you are giving it for a non-therapeutic purpose but instead are giving it for one of its side effects, such as making a horse quiet, you are violating the rules. Yes, these trainers took bad advice from a vet that it wouldn’t test. BUT THE WHOLE POINT IS THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL BY GIVING A PERFORMANCE ALTERING MEDICATION THAT THEY THOUGHT WOULDN’T TEST. UNDER THE CURRENT RULES THIS IS ILLEGAL. Not just the drug they gave, but their intent. Is it clear now???

Speaking of unintention forbidden substances - there was a time that “pepermint oil” was forbidden.

The first time I went to an A show - my trainer almost had a stroke when she saw me feed my horse some peppermints.

What she didn’t know was that peppermint oil had just that very year been removed from the list. I had already called before the show to verify this…

So when people say things can happen accidentally perhaps we can all be a bit more open to the possibilities…

Also remember that you can be found to be in violation if the plasma level of a restricted substance tips over the limit. Horses are living creatures and just like people they metabolize things at different rates. A professional could administer a legal restricted substance via feed and let’s say the animal in question doesn’t gobble up it’s dinner - It’s possible that the later ingestion could result in an “oops” when the drug testers roll around first thing in the morning.

This is one reason why many trainers resort to only using injectables during a show - it’s not because they are all using something that is verbotten it’s because they are being extra careful about the exact doasage and timing so they DON’T do anything in violoation of the drug rules.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radio talk:
Thanks, we can all use these guidelines…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If someone wants I can upload the PDF file to my website, then post the direct link here. So all you’d have to do is click.

Why D’ya Do It?

Well, the suspensions are rolling in…I know a BNT and a BNR from Texas who just got 10 months and 6 months respectively (as well as a hefty fine).

I believe SSS was just trying to get the point across that, for example, when having entirely comparable, athletic, perfect, flowing, brilliant trips in which the horse jumped exactly the same, she would hope that the judge would pin the one that did not “mess around” a little in the corner…Or, maybe I just hope that either way, to each his own…I like the jumpers more anyway!

To Jusjumpit…hmmm, sounds a wee bit like the same thing that happens at Florida every year, no?? Haha, you gotta love the horse show world, right?

What will happen to their USAEq status? Will the BNT’s who are also judges lose their judges’ cards? Shouldn’t they?!? Not that they can be held to a higher standard, but what about setting an example?

If you have a horse that is in the running for the horse of the year award that horse will not show at a level below an A level. The owner and or trainer may get home for a few days every week. However, the horse may not see his home stall for a few months or so.

Also, which shows a horse in the running shows at takes a lot of planing and some quick changes. One must remember that A points are A points. If the owner or trainer are smart they research what A shows have horses and which have super horses. If you are really chasing points you may be in NY, Michigan, Vermont and then North Carolina. To put it bluntly, you want to show your horse at a show that has A points without the super horses.
Thus sometimes the horses that win the year end award may not be the best horse but they are the ones that have shown 52 weeks a year and have beat the bushes for the A show points.
Thus the questions. Are the year end awards for the best horses or just for the horses that have beat the bushes for the points? How does one keep these point chasers sound and sane without chemnicals?

jumphigh, you have freedom of choice. A horse does not. Your employer does not medicate you without your consent or input so that you can be a productive employee.

And you are probably consulting with licensed medical professionals, not with your boss who may have no medical training whatsoever.

And there is a big difference between an older horse still in good health who is more comfy with a tab of bute a day, and the younger horse in his prime who still gets a list of meds before going into the ring.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SydneyS:
The difference between disciplines is clear, but the hunter industry should be able to “borrow” certain aspects to improve themselves.

The overall impression is EXTREMELY important to the hunter trip. However, it’s wrong when you see, time and time again, the blah A/A hunter who barely makes it over the jump because it’s so dull beating the one who’s a better jumper and mover but may have a little playful head toss or tail swish in the corner. That’s just wrong - it’s not what the discipline started out as, only the way it’s ended up.

Instead of assuming we know what the “R” judges want and don’t want, why don’t we ask them? They may be interested in a change…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree Sydney, a horse shouldn’t be penalized for a swish of the tail or a little playfulness.
I would much rather see an alert, brillant horse than a dull “plodder”…

I’m with C.boylen here…this is not recreation as far as the show industry is concerned.

I don’t know how many millions are generated by QHs in Columbus Ohio, Arabians in Scottsdale or Saddlebreds in Louisville for the local economy.
I shudder to think of the money that changes hands on horse dealing at these venues as all are major “shopping centers” for both buyer and seller and countless go with the expectation of making a deal.

Any time that kind of money is involved, there is a temptation to do whatever to pin higher in the main ring…actually that temptation goes all the way down to the lowliest trailer park shindig if any money at all is involved.

Horses, cats, dogs…you name it. If money is involved, somebody will cheat. Maybe by lying about a birthdate, switching papers or changing a name or drugging to achieve desired performance levels.

Nothing new. But we still need to police it.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.