That was rather well said Lucassb 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Portia:
Folks seem to assuming that all of these suspensions have something to do with forbidden substances/failure to report.
Unless somebody has received an new issue of Equestrian magazine that includes the reasons why the named people were suspended, all we know now is the names on the list posted on the USA Eq/USEF website.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I second that…many of you dont know the exact circumstances of the suspensions etc…
PAIGE
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jake’s Dad:
you know this story sounds like other story i use to hear in basic training…the horse went down in the aisle…the vet was called he gave him a shot and brought him back to life…he was in a class in the afternoon and got a ribbon.i dident see it …but i was told it happened at 4 am …hmmmmm question how come we never heard anything about this ??? for some reason the part i dont belive is …he went in a class and won a ribbon…wait …the bnt or the horse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, once the horse was fine it was fine. You know?
This happens a bit with the magnesium and to a lesser degree the calcium. Most of the time the vets don’t need to administrate any drugs to bring them back. Who knows if that part is true or not.
Lots of the horses are fine to show an hour after it happens.
Limo Wrek.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pinkhorse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
And the point to all this is that NO ONE saddles up to come in second. You can’t legislate that<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OMG - join the real world!!! I guess I just hang out with lots of NO ONEs. We can’t all own lots of horses “of the century”. Some of us ride to ride and show to ride. Some of us get our satisfaction from the horse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That’s lovely Pinkhorse, but we aren’t discussing you and your friends. We’re also not discussing ME, so there’s no need to be quite so rude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didn’t find that rude. And yopu did write “NO ONE” (in caps, even). You didn’t say “none of the BNT’s or their clients.”
Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.
Me, too- and they could replace it with tango music or the news from Estonia or something. Heh.
I’d feel weird if my trainer was suspended- depending on the circumstances, most likely I would be moved to pull up shop and go to someone else. I wonder what effect these have had on trainer/client relationships?
You can take a line and say it isn’t straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diKecnadnuS:
So what about a little pony kid whose parents know NOTHING about horses? Are they expected to research the meds too?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>When i was a kid, my parents knew nothing about horses. But they (in particular my mother) certainly ‘researched" everything thqat was done to or with the horses. So yes, I DO exepct the pony kids’ parents to research (at least on absic level) the meds their horses are given.
If nothing else, some of these meds have a definite ipact on future soundness and health. The parents need to research the meds, at least to the extent needed to “protect their investment”.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Still, being shocked for a censure indicates a fairly low threshold for being shocked. Might want to toughen up a bit if you are to survive the rest of the up and coming suspensions…
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
And rather than raise the per show testing fee, why not have it tied into annual dues? If an owner wishes to show his or her horse that year, he or she will have to pay an annual drug testing / storage fee that would cover that year’s testing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tiramit, I’ve got to disagree with this part. I prefer the fee for service arrangement we have now, where you pay more drug fees the more you show. After all, some people show one horse in 4 or 5 recognized shows a year, while others show 5 horses in 50 shows a year.
I think LH’s suggestion is well worth putting into a rule change proposal and at least discussing with Dr. Allen and Dr. Lengel, to see if it is feasible and how much it would cost. 
The whole calcium/magnesium thing scares and disgusts me.
Drugs come into play in the sporting world when participants are asked to do the unnatural and the improbable.
This is why a rider in the Tour de France had over 30 different performing-enhancing supplements in his car – several kinds of growth hormone, a few varieties of insulin, steroids, EPO, and even a pharmaceutical used to treat dwarfism (huh?). This is why all kinds of athletes are getting subpoenaed in the case involving THG, the newly discovered ‘designer’ steroid – designed, in this case, to ‘disappear’ during the testing process.
In the horse world, we expect show horses to travel the circuit year-round with little/no turnout, small stalls, lots of mileage on a trailer, and lots of jumping. This is not natural for a horse.
And we expect the young and/or green hunters to go around quietly in a rather charged environment. We also expect horses ridden by uneducated riders, novice riders and child riders to go around the ring quietly with no complaints or expression. This is improbable.
Another rule of thumb for drugs in sports is that every individual caught with a positive test is “the last person who’d ever use drugs”. Well, I’m wondering who the ‘first person’ is, because he/she never seems to get caught.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nix:
Can a rider still compete on the international level if they are suspended from the USA Eq (USEF or whatever the name is now) ?
I’m just curious because Todd Minikus regularly competes in World Cup events and such… can he still do that?
~ Riding… the art of keeping the horse between you and the ground. ~<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope, you have to be a member in good standing of your national federation to show at FEI shows.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
Certainly many ways to be suspended-bad behavior towards show officials being another nobody has brought up yet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah yes. I’m reminded of a notice in Horse Show many years ago,
“Where, as officials at Show XX, they physically assaulted an exhibitor… When deciding the penalty, the Committee noted that as members of the Hospitality Committee, the officials’ behavior was especially inappropriate…”
Yes, thanks Trumpet Everytime I try to open a pdf file in a second window I freeze my computer 
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jake’s Dad:
just a thought … most of the horses are given somthing 72 hrs befor a show for training …<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
HuH?
What kind of prohibited substance needs to be given pre-show for “training”?
Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.
Well said Beezer!! We’d all like to keep our heads in the sand, but unfortunately we can’t.
C.Boylen, in Art. 409, 1.a) of the 2004 rule book, better known as The No Foreign Substance Provisions, is what I believe Weatherford is speaking of. Also Art. 409 4.b) states the thresholds that are not actionable. But to CYA always fill in the med report. Have found that any questions concerning medications, is worth a phone call to the D & M. They are very nice to speak to.
Alas, I have been shot in my lurking heart. As a hard-working groom who has been in the business for… well… centuries, I am saddened to hear that C. Boylen would put grooms at the head of the list of cocaine abusers on the circuit. My experience has been far different. Most of us are much too poor to be sniffing the fluffy stuff, although some of us work for strangely manic trainers. However this digresses from the topic at hand – and I am with Jumphigh 83 on this one. Be patient and wait for the facts.
Court, there is a HUGE difference in the number of horses at any event versus WEF. There’s a huge difference between just about any big A show and any event (especially when you consider that not all event divisions are FEI sanctioned… especially the really BIG divisions like novice). H/J gets a distinct numbers advantage when you realize they can - and do - run 4 to 8 rings consecutively.
And I can’t speak for European FEI events, except that I recall an interview with the Beerbaums, who commented that size-wise, there was nothing in Europe like WEF…
And yes, that is over 3000 horses on the grounds, and probably another 3000+ stabled nearby, a good number of which rotate on to the showgrounds at some point or another (many trainers who stable off grounds keep a few stalls at WEF - they move the horses to the showgrounds the night before their class).
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lucassb:
Don’t get me wrong - I love to win - but I wouldn’t take any satisfaction out of a ribbon “earned” by anything other than a well schooled horse and a decent ride, so that’s what I aim for.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think your statement is exactly the difference between a “horseman/woman” and a person who just shows horses for the ribbons or profit. Alas for the dwindling numbers of horsemen!
…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford
Yep. I used them for years.
The only problem is that they don’t really “encourage” heel growth. (How did we get this post on the suspension topic, by the way?)
[It’s awkward jumping back in after so many pages, but I hope I’ll be forgiven if I repeat something already stated.]
I was thinking hard about this–and all of the suggestions that have come up–and ended up concluding that there is really no hope. The problem is that h-j in America is an exhibitor supported sport. The system cannot change if it deprives its exhibitors of their pleasure…and that word “pleasure” is a profound one in this context.
This isn’t a criticism. It’s just a fact. You can’t reduce the number of shows and you can’t legislate better horsemanship (fitness, individual care, rider skill, etc.). As long as the ONLY way you can put on a show is by attracting as many exhibitors as possible, your hands are tied.
I always end up comparing one sport with another, but even upon doing that, you just can’t “blame” h-j (yup, that’s the conclusion I came up with all right!). Dressage horses don’t jump, so comparing what those exhibitors-who-support-showing want and need to what h-j’ers do is like comparing apples with oranges. To be competitive in eventing compared to being competitive in h-j is also like comparing apples to oranges.
And so it all comes back to the nature of the sport, which simply can’t be changed (at least not significantly enough to solve these problems, that is).
Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
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Just my 2 cents…it seems that there is so much stress whether it be from rider/parent/owner/trainer to win. Hunters need to go and go and go, horses need to show week in, week out and oh yeah…they need to be sound and sane all this while being as quiet and well behaved as they can. Are we still talking about animals or a living breathing being?
In the 3 day eventing work I know that they test for everything and at the highest levels they do random farm checks. Those trainers/riders are required to pull their horses off every supplement 10 days before an event. They do soundness jogs throughout the event.
Am I missing something? Why are they then passing soundness exams?
What is the horseshow world missing?
If they get their horses too fit (which helps combat unsoundness) then they have too much horse for the show.
I feel for the uninformed or the innocent by standers that are getting caught in this. The little novice kid on her little pony who can’t show.
