THE suspension list

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucky2day99:
Darker Horse

I guess… I was intrigued by your answer to why use Dex regularly… and forgive me I am honestly not trying to be rude or anything so please forgive me if this sounds so much.

If your jumper is having problems to the fact that your are injecting his coffin joint every six months, on dex regularly and bute at horse shows… creaking in his hocks… and getting more and more wear and tear why continue going along the same path with the said horse?

I guess what I am trying to say is that why continue to use him when he is obviously beginning a decline? I can understand taking him to shows lightly and maybe at a lower level.

I think I am just overly sensitive… I have an aged mare who became severly unusable at the age of 15 due to lameness compounded by a few years with less than meticulous care and a full workload… in other words she was not used lightly when she started her decline and by the time I owned her… six months later she was so lame that even a nerving did not help. I knew she was heading downhill (did not know it would be so perm) but I purchased her anyway since she was the love of my life. But I cant help but wish her previous owners had treated her more lightly so even at 19 I could at least enjoy her company on a trail ride.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The horse isn’t a lame horse. I mentioned the injecting because we take good care of our horses and inject joint fluid into his joints as needed. He gets dex at shows. The horse doesn’t show that often, maybe two times a month at the most. He isn’t lame. He doesn’t limp. He does show at a low level- the adult jumpers. The horse gets dex and bute at horse shows for the parts of his body that we don’t inject. This is a horse that i’d imagine would even pass a vet check as far as most owners would be concerned.

I can’t really explain it other than that he is more comfy with slight medication, but he really would show fine without it also.

This horse still has a bunch of years left of showing, and then a bunch of years left as being a hack horse/ trail horse type after that before he would be completely retired. He really does like showing I think also.

Why D’ya Do It?

[Midge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horsepop:
Now let me ask a really silly question. If people are giving illegal drugs to their horses, why would having a vet administer IV injections keep any of them from continuing their illegal practice when no one is looking?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ding!! Ding!! Ding!! We have a winner!

[DMK]

molly - would this be the trainer where the vet testified on behalf of the trainer in question?

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[daytimedrama]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:
Molly99?

How do you pull a Coggins on that horse??

fernie fox
“I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound”.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL That made me think, do they use tranquilizer darts on horses? LOL<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I went on a tour of a Zoo, and the zoo vet showed us his whole collection of darts and guns. It was pretty funny.

~Christina~
“I made a new friend today.”
“Real or imaginary?”
“Imaginary.”

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Molly99:
Now, why are the vets being held accountable as well?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, unless the vet signed off on the entry form, I’d guess that USAE has no jurisdiction.
That, however, is more or less beside the point.
It really doesn’t matter whether said vet told the trainer and/or owner that the stuff wouldn’t test. If trainer and/or owner had the horse administered drugs for the purpose of altering behavior, then it was wrong.
And they didn’t get away with it like they thought they would.
Gee, what a shame.

My opinion of a vet who would aid and abet cheating is low, but that does not diminish the guilt of the rest of the crew one iota.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the vet doesn’t know AHSA rules. The AHSA can do whatever they want. This isn’t law. They don’t need ‘jurisdiction.’ The worst thing they could do to a vet is ban him from horse shows.

[findeight]

Vets themselves are not always above stooping into the shadows for a price.

There are vets on the horse killer list too.

Vets only to inject is a nice principle…until you have one at a show that needs something for legitimate purposes and you have to pay TRIPLE what you do at home…been there done that.

Don’t forget many horses only actually show a few days weekly but live at the showgrounds for the better part of a month, sometimes longer.

That last Reserpine scandal that got the Jumper folks involved an herbal supplement supposedly free of it…the hearing commitee researched it and believed them…but they still had to give stuff back and pay small fines.

From what my own vet tells me, this is a derivative of Reserpine and, I guess, some thought it could be masked or otherwise missed by the test…BUT there are legit reasons for this drug OUTSIDE the competition arena and it is possible some could have traced far later then they thought. The hearing committee does consider this in deciding on fines and suspensions.

JMHO but there are a few too many positives in too many barns for me to buy that one for most of these.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.

[flshgordon]

such a shame that the numbers are that low LH. But for the record…I work at LEAST 50 hours a week–more like 70…I have a full time job AND a part time one!! I just try to make it a priority to get out to the barn and ride 3-4 times a week.

I know it’s not for everyone for sure…I barely have time to eat or sleep. Then again, I’m not married yet and I don’t have kids so I can be relatively selfish with my leisure time.

“Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one’s horse as he is leaping”

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
DH - sounds like you are being a little facetious - however, those words “ROM” and “Champion” and “Supreme Champion” is the Quarter Horse world are worth a LOT of additional dollars in terms of a horse’s value…

_ It’s OUT! _ Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping _ co-authored by MOI!!! _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I was dead serious. It would be cool to be able to have CH infront of my horses names and have a goal of a certain ammount of champions to do that. LOL

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Horsey E-bay! Check it out. (Still in beta stage, but it works)
http://classified.catchride.com

[dab]

I do think sss makes some good points – I’m also a bit confused – The experience where the judge rewarded a horse’s great rounds complete with proud head shaking is evidence of the type of judging that people are trying to encourage with weighted scoring systems – I think this judge would pin this horse first in either system – And a judge who prefers a less expressive horse would mark this horse down in either system – I don’t think weighing scoring criteria will legislate opinion –

How would a weighted score differentiate between the horse spooking at the dog underfoot or another horse spooking at something far outside the ring?

From what I’ve read, AQHA is ‘fixing’ their judging system with a different approach – They’ve sent videos of the horses with ‘ideal’ gaits to all of their judges – I think it’s the hunter judging criteria itself many of us want to see changed, not the weight of particular criteria –

[clearound]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

I also think that the innuendos in many of these postings is disgusting. As I am intimately familar with the names, and the facts, of several that will be on the next suspension list, I can assure you that the number of people who were/will be suspended is probably less that .05 percent of the people who would consider to be BNTs.

Not all BNTs use illicit drugs on their horses!

Why don’t we let this die until everyone has the facts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK. So you’re cooler than the rest of us. Wow.

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MADELINE - Your comment is exactly the behavior I was talking about!

Thank you for proving my point!

[Snowbird]

It is easy and Painless and then your idea is up for open discussion with all the committees involved as well as the membership.

Download the Form for Rule Change from the website. I know it’s on the old site, not sure if it’s on the new website.

It asks you for the proposed wording which you want to delete, add or modify in a particular Article, Section etc. The toughest part is finding that reference.

Then they ask what committees you think are affected, what the financial impact would be on USEF and simple stuff like that. You can go to proposed Rule Changes and look at what other people have done and how. Just answer honestly and be a thorough as possible each section on the Form. They ask you to explain the intention of your change so that the legal staff can make sure what you amended or added accomplished what it was you want.

Please do! I started that way five years ago and have been pleasantly surprised by the number of well intentioned people willing to help.

It requires more courage than brains.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Bu that still begs the question. If they were giving “it” (whatever “it” is)for colic, why didn’t they file a D&M report?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Janet, without knowing any of the facts involved in this particular case, the prevailing wisdom is that most things clear the system in 2 weeks. I think most people don’t even think about a D&M report if the substance was given more than 2 weeks prior to showing. I know I haven’t. Now the obvious exception would be a long acting drug like reserpine, but by the same token, if a vet told me “reserpine will be active in your horse’s system for 60 days” I would probably not file a D&M report after that additional 2 week time period had elapsed.

And personally, I am now paranoid enough that if I had to give my horse banamine within 3 weeks prior to a show (even the legal therapeutic limit), I will NOT give bute at that show (OK that is very obvious if you gave your horse banamine on monday, you better not give him bute on Thursday, but even 2 weeks apart has me a little leery).

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[HSM]

RE: Weatherford’s suggested sytem:

Look at it this way: It IS a way of looking at the “whole picture.” It doesn’t “break it apart”, but instead attempts (rather nicely, it seems to me) to quantify the entire picture in a way that could be applied more consistently.

Janet pointed out that it would be hard to reconcile this with the current practice of hunter judges to judge “comparatively”, placing one horse against another as they show. Well, maybe (?) that would be a good thing.

Interesting discussion.

Edited to add: wouldn’t this new approach also eliminate the current emphasis on having to get “x” number of strides? A good jump would be a good jump no matter how many strides it took to get there, right?

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I’m just the mom…

[dab]

Weatherford – Thanks for giving us an example of how the scoring system would work –

It would be interesting to see a few judges score a few different divisions using their standard system and one similar to the one you’ve suggested – I’m really not sure that a weighted scoring system is going to change the way a class is pinned – Most judges already consider ‘suitability’ more/less depending on the division – I do think that the particular example you’ve given here probably gives more weight to gaits than most judges do in o/f classes – I am concerned that some unscrupulous trainers would see such a system as an excuse for drugging children’s horses –

I do think that such a scoring system might keep people from using ‘the judge is biased’ excuse quite as often (especially if each component of the score was announced) –

[Black_Market_Radio]

I imagine it is so that the horses that he owns can not be shown at rated shows!

Here are the Devilpups!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87
I un-clog my nose at you, you brightly coloured, mealy-templed, cranberry-smelling, electric donkey-bottom biter!’
TTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHBBBBBBB!!!

[The_Muffin_Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MHM:
Midge, please check your PTs.

Muffin Man, the point of my question to Saddlebag was, how can a judge tell the difference between the horse who was (illegally) prepared with a syringe and another horse who was (legally) prepared with a lunge line?

Answer: There is no way for a judge to know which method was used! So the judge should not be expected to factor the drug question into his/her decisions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I misunderstood…
I was referring to the statement “hours on the longe line isn’t any better for the horse than drugs” and I agree.
But how does one compete with a drug free horse when the bar has been raised so high by the use of drugs??

[NinaL_aka_Chrissy]

Re: only vets able to give IV injections at a show.

Sorry, it is a stupid rule and not really horse friendly at all. I, for one, would be mighty ticked off if I had a horse at a show with a real emergency and the vet was tied up administering IV injections to competing horses. Or, worse yet, could not even be found because he is off in the barns administering the IV’s.

And my hands are tied because I cannot do anything for my horse that may require an IV drug so the only thing I can do is wait for the vet.

I hate the idea of requiring a vet to be a member of the USEF in order to be a show vet. I do not think it is the vet’s responsibility to know the D&M rules. After all, there are many drugs out there that are routinely used for legitimate reasons (Reserpine being one of them, actually) and the vet’s priority should be treatment of the patient not upholding the organization’s rules (some of which, frankly, boggle the mind; witness, the tolerance for anabolic steroids and dexamethasone but don’t you dare give your horse prednisone). It is up to the trainer or owner to check with the D&M committee regarding any medications given a horse. I certainly would not expect or want my vet to make a treatment plan based on what is “legal for showing” in the eyes of the USEF.

I do not like to equate horse showing with racing. The rules of the racetrack are there because the public bets on races. I am not so naive to believe that the rules were instituted for the welfare of the horse. Sure, they may benefit the horse in the long run but it is in the racing association’s best interest to maintain the public’s belief that the races are fair and square. There are precious few horseshows out there that make sufficient money to hire enough show vets to cover all the demand for a vet’s time that would come along with the rule. So the cost is going to be passed on to the exhibitors especially at the smaller shows where the vet is often retained on call.

As has already been pointed out the cheaters are still going to cheat and the ones who play by the rules are going to be hurt.

The more I think about the three strikes and you are out rule the more I like it. If you are so incorrigible that you cannot change your ways after being caught the first two times you do not deserve to be a member of the organization.

Nina

[woudn_tYOUliketoknow]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LucianCephus:
LH…I just go to Edit, select “Find on this page,” and type in today’s date. Voila. The hit parade for 01/01/04 includes Gary Young, Sandra Lobel, Thomas Johnson, Darren Dlin, and Robert Crandall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL are you SURE they aren’t testing the people on at least one of these?!?!

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
But, let’s deal with the real world where those things aren’t going to happen. Qualifying/year end awards put pressure on to show enough to achieve these ends. The utter proliferation of shows makes it attractive to do so. The judging demands that the horse be an automaton in the ring. Hence, LTD, meds, starvation, limit water, etc. to get them to this state.Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where is it written that one MUST win a year end award? We would all like to be great at what we do, but it is ABUSE and POOR SPORTSMANSHIP to make achieving the goal more important than the health and well being of the animal.

HOW ABOUT trainers refusing to train for owners who demand horse win this or that and go to every show no matter what. How about owners refusing to send horses to or ride with trainers that will illegally and immorally administer drugs to horses that need to rest and heal (Or retire).

You have freedom of choice. You can choose to associate with those that follow the rules instead of those that will bend/break the rules.

[Bumpkin]

That must be why Marconi is riding so much at Indio this year.

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