THE suspension list

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LimoWrek:
Yep, its vacation time… And i’m going to enjoy the time off personally


Limo Wrek.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In case you don’t know what Farfel was reffering to, I believe it would be THIS qoute!

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87
We are now the Knights Who Say ‘Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv’

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Sounds like maybe a troll…hopefully.
I wouldnt want to think that people actually would expect a live being to be an athlete in the afternoon after nearly dying in the a.m. Not entertaining at all.

when you talk on the direct connect you just push a button no dial or anything it just makes it seem like you are closer to the ppl you are talking to. Plus it is alot quicker, I have one.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by J. Turner:
Sometimes it’s better choice to be an honest, talented NNT than a BNT. I respect the trainers who decide to take the high road. And, just because you are a nobody, doesn’t mean you aren’t a respectable horseperson. I mean, if you can’t trust an Olympian (alternate), who the hell can you trust? You might as well go with an honest NNT.
QUOTE]

I think that you are missing the point of my post. This has nothing to do with BNT v. NNT. It has to do with those people who choose to take the easy way out. I have seen many NNT at unrated shows taking the same easy way out. The difference being is that there is no testing so they don’t get caught.

The real question should be - if you can’t trust your trainer, who should you trust.

Someone talked about a lame 100K horse earlier… And if it wasn’t lame it would be 500K… Its 100K caus it doesn’t vet but wins and you can med the hell out of it…


Let’s Roll

jumpsalot, I think the real question is how good a distance did you find to the dog?

Ditto on the happy shake. When my horse does it, it pleases me to no end, and it isn’t remotely upsetting to my seat. If it were, I would expect to be so judged. I also allow him the “You MORON” head shake he is inclined to give when I work very hard to screw up a distance that was right there. Of course at that point, I expect the judge has knocked me out of the running for the idiot pilot job before the fence, NOT the social commentary (by the victim) AFTER the fence!

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by radio talk:
DH its not what part of the country you are from that denotes the cars. BNT’s and those that want to imitate them are all headed for the fancy car routine. Been happening for quite some time.

People will always imitate those they want to be like. Be it the BNT or the Olympic rider. That also goes for the drugging problem we are seeing. Many have no idea why some of these drugs are given. They just know it works for whats their name, so why not? Some happens due to the trainers actually being taken. Here they have spent their clients hard earned funds, they’re going to make this horse be what it was sold as. Others, it’s just easier, plain & simple.

DH, you never did answer whether you had looked up the long term effects of Dex. You might want to rethink what you’re giving to him. There are other options. Not nearly so invasive or having long term effects on your horses health. All horses do creak. Given the amount of work show horses have to do. Dex is a quick fix, but its lasting effects can be more devastating than its fixes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok cars, whatever. I don’t think I explained that point well. Being a horse trainer is not a glamorous job. They do not make tons of money. They would be best to choose another route if that is their desire.

I really doubt that people are giving horses tranquilizer for no reason to be ‘fashionable.’ No one is that moronic. They are doing it to get results.

And I know all of the long term problems associated with dex. In the levels that we use we have NEVER had one horse have a problem. I don’t know how many hundreds of horses I’ve seen in the last 10 years in my trainer’s care but they hardly ever even get colds. None… NONE have foundered. Ever.

I take that back, a school horse did founder once, but obviously it wasn’t showing or getting dex.

Dex isn’t really what I would consider a quick fix. It is a medication. It makes the older horses more sound. No more no less. I have had no devastating results. We give 8cc of dex per week a hosre is at a horse show, and for not more than two weeks in a row. It is broken down into a dose over 2 days now that the rules do not allow 8cc to be given at once: 5cc on Thursday and 3cc on Friday, assuming their main days of shwoing are on the weekend.

I always want to learn, for some reason medication fascinates me- be it human medication or horse medication… I pick up even the real scientific names fast, I don’t know why. Explain what side effects this low dose of dex has on horses, since I have never seen the bas side effects.

And what are the alternatives that can be used with bute? (besides arquel or ketofin and robaxin)?

And aren’t they about to approve another NSAID? Is it a good one?

Why D’ya Do It?

No, lauriep, the trainers and owners who INSIST on attending a show every weekend will SEE that their overscheduling has repurcussions on the horses health and the horse itself will force them to give it time off.

This will help the REAL horsemen because they will be the ones with the sound happy horses and clients winning ribbons.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
Guys… Remember.

As much as it seems the mixup might not really have been a mixup, people are innocent until proven guilty.

Why D’ya Do It?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But they have had their hearing right? They were found guilty.

Courtney

I agree with horsepop… I think many of the trainers press their luck with the drugs, cause after all what are the chances of your horse being picked for a “random” drug test. I can’t exactly speak on the “random” considering the fact that my horses have been drug tested at least 5 times in the past couple of years. But you have to admit with the drug testers not being at every show and not testing every horse, it has to be tempting to trainers to use drugs to make their horses go better. If they are legit and make the horse more comfortable I am for it, but don’t go drugging a lame horse to make it march around the ring.

Perhaps one of the biggest problems is that to win in the show ring today your horse has to be almost comatose to win.

In an ideal world one would hope that these suspensions would hurt the BNTs that are on the infamous list. Unfortunately, I think the only folks it will really hurt are their clients. However, I do think clients should have a bigger role in knowing the drug rules. I would never risk getting suspended over a medication that is given to my horse. Ignorance is not bliss folks. If your horse needs drugs to make it a little more comfortable (note, not to enhance performance) than contact USAe and find out the rules and how long before you show the med can be given. Dr. Lengel will be more than happy to help. The best way we as owners can help keep ourselves and our trainers out of trouble is to arm ourselves with the facts.

That said I still believe it will be interesting to see who is on this LIST

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”

O.K you guys I agree with owners need to be more educated and ask about what “medications” their horses are getting and so on, because it is hard to be educated in horsemanship and understanding the horse world without making a lot of mistakes first. I think that’s why C. Boylen has seen so many owners with poor understanding of what is really going on.

I, personally have made some dumb mistakes as I am sure others here have as well.

This is why I think we need to develop some basice standards and requirements under which professionals can operate. And it should be recognized and supported by our national governing body.

OMG There are a ton of TX people on there.

“It is the difficult horses that have the most to give you.”

G.A. Barnes

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
You have IV injections and you have IM injections. The last time I saw a trainer try to give an IV injection, the carotid artery was hit, the horse flipped over and went into convulsions, and the only way the horse lived was because the vet happened to be driving up the road about 1/2 mile away.

The trainer happened to be giving the horse a little tranq to remove some stitches (trying to help the horse’s owner save some $$).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, congratulations to the trainer because he managed to completely avoid the jugular vein which is a whole lot easier to hit then the carotid artery which is rather harder to get to.

IM Banamine injections may result in a clostridial infection in the muscle. For those of you that are old enough to remember when injectable Ivermection was labeled for horse use this is the big risk that was associated with injectable Ivermectin. Therefore, you should either administer Banamine IV or orally.

Really, there is no great mystery in IV injections if you have been trained in how to give one. However, I will say I have seen one trainer who had a terrible technique. I told him he used the “search and destroy” method and showed him how to do an IV correctly.

Perhaps I am a little casual because a horse is a piece o’ cake compared to a small dog or a cat.

Nina

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by findeight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ash:

Didn’t changing the specs in the Western Pleasure division help that discipline do away with a lot of the crazy things people used to do to make their horses carry their heads so low?
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Why yes. The rule that the poll must be no lower then the withers has resulted in a new conformation chart officially renaming the knees as “withers”.

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Ahahahahahaaaaaaaa…that actually made me laugh out loud and then quickly cover my trap so as not to draw attention. Very good!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:

Funny you should mention Sally Sexton - as SHE IS THE ONE who STARTED teh campaign to CHANGE the way HUNTERS were being judged!! I very clearly remember reading an op-ed in the COTH before she died where she talked about it! Actually, it was reading that that sent me off to watch hunters, and seriously consider HOW we should go about change.
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Erin, do you know if Ms. Sexton’s editorial is available online? I did a quick search through the archives, but without knowing the date, well… Thank you!


“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford

The rule on suspension from the USAE website reads: that if it is demonstrated that the horse’s interest have been sold in total then the USAE can lift the suspension of the horse. So I would think that if the new owner shows that they purchased the horse outright and the suspended/trainer business no longer has any financial interest in the horse what so ever the suspension of the new purchase would be lifted.

The bigger question is: some trainers (like Don Stewart) lease out horses to riders for a year to do the junior eq or the circuit while they shop for a new mount etc. How does his suspension affect those horses? After all he still owns them and they are only leased out. Does this mean anyone leasing a horse from a suspended trainer can’t show it?

“The credit belongs to those people who are actually in the arena…who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions to a worthy cause; who at best, know the triumph of high achievement; and who, at worst, fail while daring greatly, so that their place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” Theodore Roosevelt

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
We can’t ALL be above average. So what about the poor average-and-under folks out there?? (Sorry, I had to say it.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assumed we were grading on a curve, so that put average further back a bit…

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lms:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Barney wasn’t suspended for prohibitted substances.
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Which would make it even more horrendous for him to profit off of the horses!!

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then people shouldn’t do business with him. That is simple. However, people do, so he still makes a good living buying and selling horses, even though he can’t go to shows…

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:

So, what happens, are those rings and barns ON or OFF the showgrounds? If they are OFF, then where ARE people going to warm up? If they are ON, will there be extra stewards to keep an eye on them?

Sounds like an interesting idea, but seriously hard to enforce consistently…

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Indeed! Can you imagine the fleet of stewards in golf carts on patrol in Wellington??

Is this rule in the '04 rule book? If so, where? Or is it a proposed rule change?

i was just reading the post on “how old is the oldest horse in your barn” and it made me think…doesn’t it make sense to give a horse that loves its job some legal medications in appropriate doses to keep it happy and comfortable rather than decide that the use of any medication means that the horse should be retired or made into a trail horse. if a horse loves its job, it usually deteriorates with less work and attention and may even die sooner when taken out of the working barn environment.

again, i don’t mean large doses of illegal or legal drugs to keep a horse showing every weekend when it is clearly beyond its prime, but i feel that most athletes require some form of maintenance to stay in top form.

Well, that’s pretty dumb on the part of the AHSA/USEF or whatever it’s called these days. Show managers should be held to even higher standards than normal members, IMHO. For regular mambers who are suspended, they cannot come on to the show grounds, I know that. That’s why PV could only coach those pro riders in that equitation class last year since it was held on a day that the regular show wasn’t, hence no USEF regulations. (if I remember correctly).