Valerie Brodsky had some paper issues if I remember correctly. Her daughter was Jill and I can’t for the life of me remember the pony (Martini Mouse comes to mind but I think that is just because that was a pony at that time) I think the daughter quit riding and there was little regard as to who may or may not have received proper paper. Nice quiz! (and who was their pony??)
I survived the last paper CPA exam!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mcd:
re: DMK - I’m sorry, but I really don’t believe cheaters (students) cheat beacuse teachers don’t know how to teach. mcd.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But that wasn’t my point. I know the vast majority of folks cheat for entirely “internal” reasons. But even if that is the case, that is still a lousy reason to ignore another facet of the system that is entirely broke. On the other hand, it sounds like typical good politics to take on the easy fix (test more) and just ignore the harder stuff to fix (underlying system of judging could just use some serious overhaul). God forbid we should tackle BOTH problems!
As for the comments about the show manager, if we are talking the FL show manager, the violation did not occur in the course of show manager duties. The violation was in the course of showing their horse. So they are suspended as “members” not show managers. Now as suspended members, they should be able to manage their show. If there was any USEF issue with that show being held during the suspension period, I am sure the “neighbor” manager would have ferreted it out and bought it to the attention of that powers that be. 
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
My take on the owner’s responsibility? Before choosing a trainer for her expensive investment (for all of us it’s relatively expensive investment), check to see if the trainer has ever been suspended for anything. If the trainer has been suspended, then you can blame the owner, if the trainer gets caught again on her horse. If the trainer has never been suspended, most of the time I wouldn’t balme the owner, especially if she did all her homework!
Unfortunately, this drug stuff runs rampant. I don’t there are many who don’t use drugs in the BNT level.
“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClemsonGraduateRider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ClemsonGraduateRider:
I doubt that the people who invest in horses strictly as a business venture care whether they are horsemen or not, especially the ones that are purely investors and don’t even ride!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, anybody who does that is clearly certifiably insane and not responsible for his/her actions in the first place.
[I]Who figures an immigrant's going to have a pony? ... Why would anybody come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense... am I wrong?"[/I] Jerry Seinfeld [img]http://chronicleforums.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]I also have heard that more suspensions should be coming out around the first of the year.
“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”
OK I must be living under a rock. What is EPO???
Luckily we had a great home vet that took all the time needed.
He would stand in the middle of the stall and wait until he calmed down enough to get a needle in.
It was never an easy process, nor was it quick, but it could be done.
He was one of those that you gave a tranq to then did all the work needed.
Well this has been an entertaining read to say the least.
I’m waiting to read the official hearing results, the Net can be a bad thing where spreading rumors is concerned.
Certainly many ways to be suspended-bad behavior towards show officials being another nobody has brought up yet.
I am struck by the absolutes in some posts…things like “because all hunters are drugged she thinks she needs to drug hers too” or similar generalities. The casual dropping of a name with no proof offered bothers me too.
Then there is the near hatred towards others in some posts…
Chill out here.
The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.
Sheesh, between phone records, security cameras and DNA testing your entire life can almost be mapped out. You go from believing Santa is watching to knowing Big Brother is.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
While I appreciate and admire your perseverance with your horse, I’m not sure you understand what an unusual situation you’re presenting. If I owned your horse I would, after seven years, have $105,000 in him in board alone. Not including training, lesson, or show fees. That, is not logical. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, how is spending $1250 a month in board logical? I think my situation is more normal than yours because my board has always been in the neighborhood of $300-400 a month. And my horse DID produce from the get go, we did well at 2’6 the first year, struggled some at 3’ the next year, and he did very well the following 4 years. I got him right off the track and did not ride much or show at all the first year I had him. I was right off the racetrack too, and know NOTHING about showing hunters.
I think it is natural for the first few years of a horse’s career for it to be somewhat inconsistent. It’s selfish and irresponsible to really a crying shame to make a horse productive by any means. That’s called being a poor sport and a poorer loser.
If a competitor doesn’t have the most talented horse, learn to ride better so the competitor can give the horse a great trip and maximize the talent the horse has. If the competitor does not have the time to learn to ride better, go find another sport that does not involve the exploitation of animals.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber:
Don’t they already store samples?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes Rube
“…And friends, somewhere in [Lexington] enshrined in some little folder, is a
study in red of my [stored sample]…”
(credit to Arlo for the inspiration)
[This message was edited by buryinghill1 on Dec. 18, 2003 at 11:44 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But will they pull stored samples from Social Secretary or Monte Christo (monte Carlo?) or other positive horses to see if stored samples are also positive?
I do not believe they will under current regulations. Part of my “proposal” is a large increase in pulling samples. Yes, people will know that there is only an X percentage chance of that sample actually being tested, and a much greater chance of it being stored. But if half of all ribbon winners have samples taken and stored, the deterrent is much greater because the chance of being banned for life exists if one positive test leads to the discovery of other positive tests.
Assuming that what Todd Minikus says is true, don’t you think that he would welcome a bank of samples on Roller Coaster showing that the horse was regularily shown clean? The beauty of my suggestion is that it not only identifies and condemns the habitual drugger, but it can help to exonerate the person whose employees have made an honest mistake (I believe that, under the rule of ultimate responsibility, that trainer should still be penalized for the mistake, but at least his reputation would not be as tarnished as that of a habitual drugger who only gets caught once.)
Part of the problem with the current system is that there is no way to really, positively differentiate between the two. Both are tarred with the same brush.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucky2day99:
I think it is interesting about how everyone keeps saying… It is only a few bad apples… not all BNT do this etc etc.
Christina<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was actually thinking this point earlier-it really cracks me up how many “innocents” there are out there-thinking “oh MY trainer would never”…hey, not saying it is everyone but I can guaran-dang-tee you it is more trainers that you think!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It’s kind like how everyone talks about politicians. You know: MY guy ain’t bad, but the REST of them weasels…
Having “been around” hunters/jumpers for – lord, is it possible?? – nearly 40 years, on every level except international, I can honestly say that I have never YET met a trainer who I would consider “clean” 100% of the time. Including those who do compete internationally.
So, either I need to start hanging out with a better class of people 
or we all need to realize that there’s a whole lot more of this going on than we want to admit to ourselves. 
***** Dear Santa: All I want for Christmas is two good knees. *****
so who knows why these folks were suspended?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dab:
But, what if we monitored them for life (or at least many years)? I don’t think it’s fair to tax the entire membership to police these abusers – I think a system where the suspended trainer/owner would pay the full cost of drug testing for each of their horses at every show for the next 5 years would help keep people honest – Is this too difficult to enforce (need drug testers at every show)? – Would it be so costly that these trainers would work around the system (letting their clients show with someone else)? How about having them pay the cost of one, two, or three drug test for each horse they will be showing? Then, encourage drug testers to test these horses whenever they encounter them --<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I LOVE this idea!!! If Horse X is found to be showing on a prohibited substance, then the show vet must drug test Horse X every time he shows for the next 5 years, at THE CURRENT OWNER’s expense.
This rule will:
Insure that horse X shows “au natural” in the future, so that ribbons won will be deserved;
Make sure that the wrong doing in connection with horse X follows that horse – lowering its value (since whoever owns the horse will have to pay a drug test fee for years) and making it prove its reputation for a long time to come.
If a trainer KNOWS up front that the penalty for drugging a horse will not only be a slap on the wrist to him (something he can live with if need be) BUT ALSO will mark the horse with a big scarlet letter for 5 years, not only will HE be less likely to drug the horse, but his customers will be MORE likely to inquire into the trainer’s propensity for slipping illegal substances to their horses.
Let’s face it: Until OWNERS put their foot (feet?) down and say “We will not tolerate you drugging our horses”, it will go on. But if the horse carries a stigma for years after the discovery, then the owners will have motivation to insist that their trainers do not drug their horses.
Yes, there are some legal issues that this will bring up. But I say “Let 'em come up.” Let’s see how this plays out.
clearound-you do not know that for a fact. it has not been posted and right now it is just gossip. That is why I am eager for the USAE to post all the details…
Well if the horse world, including the USAE - really wanted to clean up the drug situation that people continually allude to - it’s simple.
Call the DEA and tell them to just send agents with sniffer dogs to recognized shows - un-announced. Seems to me - if there is a problem it would be like roaches when the lights go on!! After just a few shows - the problem would probably abate significantly.
Uh huh. And that “real story” is, what, coming from the person who was suspended?
I have nice bridge for sale if you’re interested!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NinaL aka Chrissy:
I am in your corner on this one Weatherford (not that your other suggestions aren’t support-worthy; it’s just that I have been beating this particular drum for a number of years now).
Oh, and how interesting to include a coefficient for rider’s position like they do in dressage. Might get rid of all those exaggerated positions we see these days.
Gee, the more I think about this the more I like it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Me too! Not that there won’t always be abusers, but any process analyst knows you won’t get ANYWHERE until you do a little root cause analysis! 
But if we add a rider coefficient, it might spell the end of some of my favorite judging notations: vgr - victim of a good ride (never applied to DMK) and vbr - victim of a bad ride (I plead the 5th on this one).
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RockinHorse:
I do believe mistakes etc can happen but ALL of them are innocent. Sorry can’t buy it. 
I was talking about a specific instance. I know that their are people who drug horses illegally on purpose. I think that they should be punished. But there were some trainers who were recently led to believe something would not test when it actually would. I don’t think that means they did anything wrong. Of course they should have been more aware of what was in it. That is their bad but I don’t think that makes them cheaters.
Marion
Amalia
Very well stated CLEAROUND!
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