THE suspension list

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by keljo:And do YOU pop some Soma when you have a sore muscle (but Robaxin is okay for the horses?), or maybe pop a few steroids (Prednisone?) because you “may” get sore running a 10K this weekend? My guess is-- probably not…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, acatually I do. NOt prednisone because that really woudn’t make me all that sound and it would make me fat. But I would pop a soma if I was ever so slightly sore.

Oh well, guess it is just me.

Why D’ya Do It?

[woudn_tYOUliketoknow]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LucianCephus:
Er, Devildog? Unless I’m badly mistaken, Jep is continuing to show this horse “though he’ll prob never be more than a 4’ horse now.”

Poor best friend.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Y’all seriously. I love my animals. I LOVE them. Shoot, my boyfriend knows it’s Hewey first, then him. But I love my animal as if its a person. Not as though he was BETTER than a person.

Yes, the aforementioned person shows her horse, even though it has had past issues. But if she is doing the A/A’s low A/O’s you can be pretty confident that the horse is sound, and comfortable. A horse simply wouldn’t JUMP that high if it weren’t ok. It’s the 3’ horses that “can” (I’m not saying it’s right but it’s easier to get away with) be shown unsound. Yeah, I’ve seen some Child/Adult jumpers that have been totally broken (no one I know personally) and it’s really sad, but the fact is over 3’6" they WILL eventually start stopping. But seriously, what do you expect Jeb to do? She loves her horse, I’m sure the same as we all do- but some of us love to compete too. That’s just the facts of life. And, I don’t think Jeb or anyone else on this board would show a horse that just plain was hurting. But obviously with a little help, her horse is NOT in pain. It sounds as though she loves her guy, and when he’s no longer able to do his job he will have a great home. Don’t condemn her for WANTING her horse to be useful, and wanting to do what she can to make him show. PEOPLE aren’t turned out as “pasture ornaments” the very second they can no longer perform- no, they are given every chance they can, and only after those chances are exhausted do they cease to “perform”. I know this is a sensitive issue- but take for example the thread on Off Course, with Godiva’s Mom. People are all suggesting things to get her back in the saddle- namely getting a second MEDICAL OPINION. To me that is suggesting that they are implying that there must be some sort of procedure that would make her able to ride again. That would be so amazing for her. Some horses love to be ridden and shown. I know mine does. And if he’s slightly uncomfortable, I will do anything legal to make sure he is.

[Flash44]

Bute will not prevent a horse from bruising his foot when he steps on a rock. It will, however, mask the pain so you won’t know he stepped on a rock until he later abscesses…

Maybe I’m really stupid, but I’d rather know exactly HOW my horse feels the next day so I can identify any medical conditions that need to be addressed before they develop into one of those “jingles needed for my horse” issues.

[khobstetter]

The hearings for ALOT of the folks in this mess ended last Friday. They went most of the week and there was some “excitement” during the process.

The Horse Show Mag (USAEq) will not print the results of the hearings till the next possible time in their “press deadline” which will be the Feb issue. Until then the only way to find out real details is on the web site under the suspensions…

There is always the possibility that one of the trainers will spill the beans and we can know sooner…but that’s not too likely.

http://www.foxpointefarm.com
http://www.go-sho.org

[dab]

Is it typical for the hearing committee to meet at the end of the competition year to determine the punishment for of all drug infractions during the season? This notice about year-end awards changing because results of March/April horse shows may be changed really makes me wonder – USEF/USAE/AHSA has known for 6+ months that these horses were drugged – I imagine the owners/riders/trainers must wonder if they’ve been found out when the horse is tested – Do you think they continue to show the horse drugged? –

I’m wondering how many repeat offenders are out there –

The rumor mill (including some posts on this thread) leads me to believe that some of these trainers gave horses drugs with potentially dangerous consequences with the expectation that these drugs would not be detected in drug tests – I just don’t see how a few months ‘vacation’ is sufficient punishment – I will not hold my breath waiting for USEF to ban these competitors for life – But, what if we monitored them for life (or at least many years)? I don’t think it’s fair to tax the entire membership to police these abusers – I think a system where the suspended trainer/owner would pay the full cost of drug testing for each of their horses at every show for the next 5 years would help keep people honest – Is this too difficult to enforce (need drug testers at every show)? – Would it be so costly that these trainers would work around the system (letting their clients show with someone else)? How about having them pay the cost of one, two, or three drug test for each horse they will be showing? Then, encourage drug testers to test these horses whenever they encounter them –

[tegotong]

I just thought that I’d point out that fluphenazine is another name for prolixin, the “new” anti-psychotic that everyone’s been talking about. So we’ve seen our first suspension for it. Meg Kapil and Linda Townley are western Canadian BNTs though, you guys may not have heard of them. I presume that this suspension also applies up north. I find it interesting that their fines are lower than the reserpine suspensions. Maybe because it hasn’t been tested for before? Well, now I know why their students from my area are going to Indio with a different trainer.

[flshgordon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SGray:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flshgordon:
I guess maybe I am the only one that doesn’t understand the politics involved in this testing, because I just DO NOT understand how it costs $350 to $600 PER HORSE to drug test a horse!!! Doesn’t anyone else find this to be an absurd figure? Draw blood/collect urine and then send it off to the lab–how does the bill get up to hundreds of dollars?

I’m not saying I won’t pay extra fees at shows, but if they’re going to triple+ my cost of testing fees from $10 to $35 they damn well better be able to say they are getting the problem under control for that figure and making it fair for those of us who actually try to work with our horses instead of drugging them into submission.

“Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one’s horse as he is leaping”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the costs are due to the fact that the Fed. owns the lab - built the lab - runs the lab - improved the lab… and it’s the only lab in North Amer. certified by the FEI

and I’m sorry that my proposal to up the fees upset you - and it probably wouldn’t stop those that are determined to cheat - but certainly more testing would help

and since you are objecting - I’d like to hear if one class fee is too much then what would be more acceptable to you?

“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn’t realize it was your proposal—guess I didn’t read that part clearly. Like I said–I’m not saying I wouldn’t pay more fees–IF–they could say they were able to test more than (what was the figure) 10%? of the horses?
I’d pay more than that for a few years if they would test enough horses to scare some people into thinking that it didn’t pay enough to break the rules.

Also–I’m all for whoever said that the punishment should remiburse the USAE for ALL costs they incurred for the testing and then I would also suggest an actual FINE on top of that! After all if it doesn’t sting a bit, why wouldn’t they try it again.

I haven’t read all the way through, but for those of you who weighed in on the costs…I know it can’t be CHEAP to blood test each of these horses, but I have bought a horse before and seen the costs for testing of different substances through a vet. It’s not in the $400 to $600 range unless they’re testing for 50-60 different drugs.

Lastly–I’m astonished by the revelation that USAE/FEI thinks there is only one lab in this entire country that is qualified to run equine drug tests!! I think I’m beginning to understand a bit more now…

“Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one’s horse as he is leaping”

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
Y’know, Chanda -
I’m getting really tired of reading your rationalizations and excuses for these people’s behavior. Horse trainers, if anything, need to be held even MORE accountable for their own actions than Joe Q. Citizen does - because they hold a fiduciary position where people trust valuable investments to them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you could not overlook the point, it was not to make excuses for them, but instead to emphasize the fact that making them accountable is difficult as well as being not as effective as you might think.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ash:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Molly99:

The show manager that was spoken of earlier was not suspended for a drug infraction, but for refusing to allow a drug tester to test the horse immediatly. Don’t know the outcome of the tests, but he was suspended for his actions, not a drug violation.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm…Why would someone refuse to let a horse be tested??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Other than the obvious reason of having something to hide, I can imagine somoeone at a show being irritated at the interruption in a busy schedule and perhaps having to get to another class pitching a fit. Bad idea, to be sure–it’s never good to piss off the drug testers, but not inconceivable that a horse could be innocent of any illegal substance use and still get in trouble.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[BLBGP]

Is the CC horse in question still showing or has it dropped out of the ranks before its time?

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MIKES MCS:
“Most owners are not involved, nor should be involved (due to lack of knowledge) in the medication or preparation of their horse. They trust their chosen trainer to handle their animal appropriately. I assume you aren’t an auto mechanic, do you go down into the pit when you take your car for an oil change?”

Just a quick comment … Horses aren’t cars, they are living breathing creatures who can experience mental physical and emotional pain. Regardless of how I feel about medicating I believe it is the responsabilitry of all horse owners to make it thier business to know if thier horse is being neglected , abused , or mistreated by anyone including thier trainer. The better comparison would be , would your want to know if your child were being medicated by your Nanny . JMHO<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don’t think that’s accurate, and here’s why. We ARE people, obviously we have pretty good grasp on human ailments and medicines. Also, most people that have nannys still have some experience in childcare, having had children. The average adult amateur or junior at a big barn, however, has the same relationship with the inner workings of their horse as they do with their car. They ride it, look at it, and if something is wrong, usually say “he feels weird today” or “he looks different”. Not unrelated to “it’s making a weird noise” or “it’s driving funny”.
These people don’t know bute from ace, let alone ketoprofen from ketamine, why do you want them looking over their trainer’s shoulders?

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[dab]

Must be a busy day for the USEF webmaster – I just checked the list again, and although it hasn’t changed since this morning, the site certainly has – The old USAE URL is now fowarded to the new USEF site – http://www.usef.org/ – The list is now posted under Membership -> Suspensions –

[This message was edited by dab on Dec. 01, 2003 at 04:52 PM.]

[Jumphigh83]

Sorry but you dont need to spend high dollars to create a winning A circuit horse. YOu need an eye, time, patience, and a little luck. As someone who has existed showing gift horses, throw away horses, and other peoples garbage the myth that you need a zillion dollars to compete is just that…a myth…and not having a million dollar horse (s) we STILL saddle up to WIN…no offense to anyone but WHY compete if not to win? Schooling you can do at home. I am sure that is what Chanda meant.

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com

Lead, follow, or get out of the way…

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flshgordon:
I guess maybe I am the only one that doesn’t understand the politics involved in this testing, because I just DO NOT understand how it costs $350 to $600 PER HORSE to drug test a horse!!! Doesn’t anyone else find this to be an absurd figure? Draw blood/collect urine and then send it off to the lab–how does the bill get up to hundreds of dollars?

I’m not saying I won’t pay extra fees at shows, but if they’re going to triple+ my cost of testing fees from $10 to $35 they damn well better be able to say they are getting the problem under control for that figure and making it fair for those of us who actually try to work with our horses instead of drugging them into submission.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Easy, flshgordon, note that the $35 fee was an idle suggestion by a fellow BB’er, not an offical proposal.

As to the cost, note that the test is not for just one substance, but hundreds. If you were to go to your physician and ask for (for example) a full vitamin panel on your blood, you would be looking at roughly the same $$ amount. Or ask your vet. That’s just what they cost.

[Two_Toofs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Two Toofs, it’s not that I don’t exactly believe you, it’s just that I don’t really know you or how close you are to racing, whereas I know these folks, and know the degree and history of involvement in all aspects of the industry.

You could very well be right, but I have no way of determining that. And no, I don’t believe we were talking the EPO issue as that had been on the table for a while as you pointed out…

But did I get specifics? Nah! Good gossip and great wine was flowing freely!

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EPO is the only “scandal” of late - still in the headlines. If there is another designer drug out there that has recently been banned, I sure haven’t heard of it. I have just shy of 17 years in the racing industry, and as the BM for a good sized racing stable I try keep pretty darn up to date on goings on in the race world.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

[CBoylen]

Are you really going to flame jep for showing her now sound horse? Just because of the fact that it takes an ‘occasional injection’ to get him that way? Should she have left him lame and suffering, just to avoid injecting the coffin joint? Should she just sit around and look at him, even though he’s now sound, and is under 10 years old? What precisely do you think would happen to all those useful horses with minor or treatable issues if one denied them treatment and a job?
Jep treated her horse, and manages him in a way that keeps him sound and able to do a job. She could have sold him down the river, donated him, or had him put down, and saved herself a lot of time and money. I certainly wouldn’t criticise her for her actions in this case.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[Portia]

While the list is long, it’s fairly easy to identify those caught in this particular net. They are the ones that have two dates after their names, beginning and ending, not just a beginning date. The vast majority of those with only a beginning date are for non-payment of an indebtedness.

[Janet]

I think it is interesting that when riders perceive another competitor to be “bending the rules” and to have an “unfair” advantage because they are a “shamatuer”, they complain loudly.

But when riders perceive another competitor to be “bending the rules” and to have an “unfair” advantage because the horse is receiving illegal medications, they jump up to defend them. Seems weird to me. I think that bending the amateru rules is usually a lot LESS of an “unfair advantage” than bending the drug rules.

Oh well.

As for the analogy with car mechanics- whether or not I “know a lot about cars”, I certainly expect the mechanic to tell me
-What he diagnoses the problem as
-how he is going to fix it
-what the other options are
-what the future consequences of each option are likely to be
-ANY LEGAL IMPLICATIONS of each option.

If the mechanic did something that resulted in me getting a traffic ticket, I certainly wouldn’t say “that is OK”.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by diKecnadnuS:
So what about a little pony kid whose parents know NOTHING about horses? Are they expected to research the meds too?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jean Slaughter Doty’s The Monday Horses.

If a trainer is drugging a horse and then putting me or my daughter up, you better believe I’ll be upset. My analogy of cutting the brake line to fix the squeaky brakes is apt in several ways.

Not all the parents will know better. But we do. It is our job to keep our industry clean.

Because if, say, Famous Celebrity’s kid is hurt in an accident at a show, and it turns out the pony had been drugged, you better believe it will be all over the media.

Heck, people still ask me how I can have the guts to ride after Christopher Reeve’s accident. I generally don’t point out that I’m doing the exact same sport at the same level if I want them to go away.

[spina]

mymutombo, I agree with you about our drug dependent society, and frankly, all the drug ads on TV really irritate me, too. However.
With all due respect, how would you know if someone taking a mood enhancing drug really needs it or not?