THE suspension list

[LH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
It’s a shame our recreational sport has to be policed like this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I’m going to point out that I don’t qualify what we are discussing as a recreational sport. This is a business involving billions of dollars, with millions of professionals, customers, and employees. It has widespread effects on local economies, and upon other enterprises such as real estate, commerce, and small businesses of all kinds. An industry such as this, whatever it may involve and whatever its purpose, will always require policing of some kind.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This dichotomy in views is what epitomizes the tension between the clients and the professionals. The professionals are making a living and a livelihood from the sport/hobby (depends how intense you are about it) of the customers. That’s the nature of the beast!

Like C.Boylen I’ve been in this industry in different ways for many years, I consider myself relatively knowledgeable about D&M rules (mostly because I’ve always done my own care for my horses), and I’m going to use what is legal and beneficial to my horse, in terms of supplements and medications. YOU may not agree that the use of Dex or Robaxin is beneficial, but I’ve talked to the vets, they conclude that my medication uses ARE legal and beneficial, and I am pretty knowledgeable about what is suitable for which horse.

I’m sure that in this sport, as in any other, the temptation to get an edge is great, especially when it is tough to make any real money in the industry, the amateurs and customers pressure the professional to make sure they get a good ribbon, etc. I am NOT condoning prohibited behavior – don’t misunderstand me.

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Bute will not prevent a horse from bruising his foot when he steps on a rock. It will, however, mask the pain so you won’t know he stepped on a rock until he later abscesses…

Maybe I’m really stupid, but I’d rather know exactly HOW my horse feels the next day so I can identify any medical conditions that need to be addressed before they develop into one of those “jingles needed for my horse” issues.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acatually, It woudn’t mask a stone bruise. Bute is not strong enough. If you were giving 100cc of it, maybe (10 pills). Of course, I bet the horse would colic if you did that, and that would be illegial at a show.

Bute won’t mask limping. And IMO bute really doesn’t do anything for foot pain.

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[MdLib]

Darkerhorse, common euthanasia solutions certainly are extreme doses of barbituate, usually phenobarbital or pentobarbital.

And 2 60cc syrinces are what’s given to make sure the job’s done. Which means it’s quite an overdose.

[Mardi]

Just another angle on the drugging topic - what about horse show moms on drugs (pills) ? Sounds funny I know, but I’m serious. They try to talk to the show staff about their kids’ entries or schedule, and their eyes are glazed and they can’t figure out what they’re being told.

[Tha_Ridge]

I of course was not surprised to see Barney Ward’s horses in the list, but I did see one of McLain’s. Any explanation for that?

Also, horse suspension DOES NOT carry over to the new owners if the horse is sold, as far as I know.

• L.

Je suis un salamander. J’entrerai dans le feu mais je ne brûlerai pas.

[FourGreen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Court@HJ-OH:
Who do these two juniors ride with, Morgan Levey and Julie Ann Fontaine? Don? And I thought that the stewarts sold Dabble Do Ya? Who is riding her now?

Also Southern Sales Equestrian Center is a big sale barn and they have quite a few horses suspended. That should hurt business.

Courtney<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The list is confusing because a few of the horses on there were sold over a year ago, like Herrera to Julie, Premiada, and Margin Call…

Julie is not a junior she is a 2nd year a/o and rides with Don, Michelle Grubb, and I think sometimes Lauren Hough…I think it is just the same mistake w/ the other horses because Don USED to own those three, but no longer does…

PAIGE

[Flash44]

If cocaine were so easily transferred by tainted money, we’d all be testing positive. How many times have you paid for french fries using cash and then eaten them with your unwashed fingers?

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peggy:
Agree with lauriep – probably best to deal with the situation by increased testing and punitive measures for the violators.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen. Instead of thinking of complicated ways to make it more difficult for those that follow the rules, let’s just make it downright painful for those that got caught breaking them!

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[Blinky]

What is the Lasix for in relation to drug testing?

[Bodacious]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandstone:
I think that if all of you knew why so many big names were suspended this particular time, you wouldn’t be upset.

I’m going to try to say this in the nicest way that I can, but the people who seem the most upset about this are the people who do more local things or don’t show hunters at all and are for the most part uneducated (or less educated) about horse shows and BNTs then the people who aren’t as upset. If mroe of you took part in huge shows and had extremely talented, hard working horses you would feel differently about htis situation. Maybe some of you should read up on your medications and what they actually do and what the side effects might be.

Thats not the case for everyone and I understand that. Its just an observation that I’ve made: the more posters are involved in big shows and nice horses the less likely they are to be really upset about this group of trainers that have been suspended.

I know why they were and it was NONE of their faults. Maybe some of you that like to talk so much should make sure you know what your talking about. Bad mouthing so many of these trainers is not a good idea since I think its safe to say that a lot of you don’t actually know whats really going on.

Marion
Amalia<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a talented, hardworking horse that is shown on the “A” circuit and what I have read on this thread is very upsetting!
I’m not a bit surprised about the suspension list, it’s been a long time comming!

[lms]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Risey27:
interesting to see that Barney Ward has at least 6horses on the list if not more…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He has 116 horses on the list.

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”

[horselesswonder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> We have to assume that someone intelligent enough to have earned enough money to be able to afford a High Performance Horse is also intelligent enough to protect his investment.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Yes we can and should police drugging and abuses. Yes we can create a fair competition field. Yes we can make rules of operation but no association is my partner and no association has the right to tell me how to spend my money or where to go.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Snowbird, perhaps I am misconstruing your posts, but aren’t you shooting holes into one of the arguments for the mileage rule, i.e. that of protecting horses from excessive pounding by limiting the number of available shows in a given area? I seem to remember that being one of the goals you have previously listed in favor of the rule.

And as for zero tolerance on meds, as quoted in a previous post, who would fill the children’s hunter divisions, or adult amateur divisions, or 2’6" divisions at your shows? Old campaigners are needed to teach the ropes to novice riders. Zero tolerance is not the answer, IMO.

It is interesting to me to see the same observations and criticisms raised today that were hotly debated during the 1980’s and have resurfaced on occasion in our sport’s national publications since that time. I believe that as long as there are bundles of money to be made in this sport, things will not change. It’s a shame, but perhaps the best we can do is set an example for others by doing what is right for our own horses. Time off when they are sore, a break from training for a couple of months, pick and choose shows that have good footing, and limit the number we attend in a year. And steer those new to the sport to trainers who make responsible choices for their charges.

[lauriep]

You can’t do that, tiramit. Smacks too much of big brother. We all have the option of too little, too much or not at all. And we can wish all we want that people would pace themselves and give the horses the breaks they need and deserve.

But, let’s deal with the real world where those things aren’t going to happen. Qualifying/year end awards put pressure on to show enough to achieve these ends. The utter proliferation of shows makes it attractive to do so. The judging demands that the horse be an automaton in the ring. Hence, LTD, meds, starvation, limit water, etc. to get them to this state.

What parts of the above equation are realistically changeable? And, how would you do it?

Let me tell you this: it isn’t impossible. I spoke with Joe Fargis at Culpeper. The man STAYS on the road, is almost NEVER home, and does the “circuits.” Yet, his horses STILL get their shoes pulled and they are turned out for at least a month, ship to FL unclipped and unshod, so they get the break they deserve. He may not show the heavily campaigned horses at the first few shows. Not a big deal. More important that they have their down time and be brought back up to speed properly. Yay, Joe! Granted, he doesn’t have a barn full of hunters and juniors, but the fact remains, you CAN make the time.

Ruby G. also does this for her gang.

Laurie

[MsHunter]

RzB, if your horse is competitive among the best, the answer would be to continue to see how well you can compete against the competition. If your winning at C and B shows, then why not go to a few A shows for the education and the experience vs chasing the points?

Owner/Trainer of http://www.geocities.com/plumstedequestrianctr/

[Flash44]

Maybe I’m odd, but I’d rather be poor and honest than rich and a cheater. Or a honest loser than a cheating winner.

[Flashy_Gray]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I’m not advocating it, or saying it is horrendous. I happen to think that it is a whole lot more sensible than lunging the shit out of them, or the other methods used that are equally as hard on them. And asking a healthy, athletic, well-fed animal to stay quiet when he has to be stall bound for 23 out of 24 hours on the road is just crazy. Something has to give somewhere. So what do you suggest from your lofty towers in the perfect world? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent points, lauriep.

[Magnolia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the blah A/A hunter who barely makes it over the jump because it’s so dull beating the one who’s a better jumper and mover but may have a little playful head toss or tail swish in the corner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does that REALLY happen? Or is it an exagaration? (sp?) No wonder so many people gripe about judging!

The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

[M_O_Connor]

<<What about limiting the number of times a horse can show in a year? Number of days. Or classes.>>

Nope. Can’t be done. I would be first in line to say “that’s a really bad idea.” This IS America, remember? Trainers and owners must be free to decide for themselves what sort of competition schedule makes sense for their horse. And it doesn’t seem fair to show managers to suddenly limit their pool of exhibitors. Limiting their potential income in that way would remove incentives for them to improve or maintain show quality.

That’s not to say that providing a format that would provide an incentive to show LESS wouldn’t be sensible. Just now we have a format that encourages too much showing. But placing limits such as you describe is simply not a workable or fair option.

MCL

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Does it have any other side effects? As in, if you saw a horse going around is there a way to tell if its been given these?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to be careful on this one. I’ve seen too many people point fingers here on this BB.

You cannot ever tell that a horse has been given any drug. Well, I guess you can be 90% sure if (not trying to be crude here) its penis is hanging down, its lip is drooping, and its head is below its withers that it got some tranquilizer like ace… But you can’t really have that degree of certainty with other medications… Including Ca and Mg

Why D’ya Do It?

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
You have IV injections and you have IM injections. The last time I saw a trainer try to give an IV injection, the carotid artery was hit, the horse flipped over and went into convulsions, and the only way the horse lived was because the vet happened to be driving up the road about 1/2 mile away.

The trainer happened to be giving the horse a little tranq to remove some stitches (trying to help the horse’s owner save some $$).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, it isn’t easy to hit the carotid artery. Esp if you are giving the shot up high enough on the horses neck. There is a muscle that seperates the vein from the artery.

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