THE suspension list

[becca_s_boys]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blue Devil:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LucianCephus:
Well, apparently the “Texas trainer” has stepped forward<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe he can finally get married…

My story is in the New York Times!
http://www.nytimes.com/uwire/uwire_TQED110720031291208.html?ex=1146286800&en<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But will she still want to?? I know that she was moderately irritated with him after the suspension incident last year. I would think that she is really pissed now

[Molly99]

Personally,

I would be in favor of pulling blood and urine on all ribbon winners, but picking at random from those the ones to test.

This way you know if you get a ribbon you will have the means to be tested, but you don’t really know if they test your sample or not.

A little more expensive, and an increase in the drug fee would be OK, but you wouldn’t have to really test anymore than are tested now. Nothing to say that you need to test any from a given show, but the exhibitor would not know that.

[WHISKEY_POPPA]

Maybe I have missed something, as I have not read all 55 pages.Could someone please explain to me why the Vets are not held accountable for any of this?? The trainers for sure need to be accountable,but what about the vets??Does anyone understand how much control they have on the horse show industry?? Buy the horse,don’t buy the horse??? Your horse needs time off, on and on.Don’t forget the old joke,what is the difference between God and a vet? God doesn’t think he is a vet!!

[KMZ]

Won2Keep, question? why not just let the child/horse combo go it “alone” and let mommy dearest see just how the horse cannot do it at the big shows??? why drug it so it can try and possibly leave them thinking hey he can do it, trainer was wrong. If it didn’t have the step it would add, if it didn’t have the jump, it most likely would have refused, either way trainer could have said now you need to buy a new one that can do the 3’6" at the big shows.

[dab]

http://www.equestrian.org/2003RuleBook/rule-vii.pdf Section 702 lists violations that could result in a suspension –

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For h/j shows <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, this applies to any “therapeutic rules” discipline, including eventing and dressage, as well as hunter/jumper. Does not apply to endurance. Don’t know about other disciplines. Also doesn’t apply to FEI competitions.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[dab]

Actually, I’ve been thinking that more of the ‘real’ story has been coming from people close to those suspended than we hear in the notices – This week, I heard someone close to one of the suspended BNTs has been complaining that the suspension is going to be extended to 10 months – Although the original notice only listed Reserpine, the additional suspension is for a masking drug –

[Tiramit]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:

Ever wonder about the training methods (starting as weanlings) to which you’re not privy? Teaching a youngster to jump clean is quite an art (be it an indoor school in Ireland, or elsewhere). That’s a subject some folks need to read up on. Just why are these youngsters snapping their wheels and trying so hard? That would be an educational field trip. Forget medication.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I’ll play clueless for a moment and ask in what way did intend for this to be taken by readers? I could read into it in one of 2 ways:

1. they do more free jumping and training so the horses learn how to jump on their own without a rider and build the proper muscling so they won’t incur as many injuries (which is something I’ve lamented we don’t do more of here - only one of my coaches actually had a permanent jumping chute, and he was a foreigner), or
2. that there is some sort of “alternative”, perhaps abusive, training going on?

I’m not trying to be anything but curious because I read your post twice and thought both ways. You just don’t know on this thread!

…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford

[stop4]

I think that if all of you knew why so many big names were suspended this particular time, you wouldn’t be upset.

I’m going to try to say this in the nicest way that I can, but the people who seem the most upset about this are the people who do more local things or don’t show hunters at all and are for the most part uneducated (or less educated) about horse shows and BNTs then the people who aren’t as upset. If mroe of you took part in huge shows and had extremely talented, hard working horses you would feel differently about htis situation. Maybe some of you should read up on your medications and what they actually do and what the side effects might be.

Thats not the case for everyone and I understand that. Its just an observation that I’ve made: the more posters are involved in big shows and nice horses the less likely they are to be really upset about this group of trainers that have been suspended.

I know why they were and it was NONE of their faults. Maybe some of you that like to talk so much should make sure you know what your talking about. Bad mouthing so many of these trainers is not a good idea since I think its safe to say that a lot of you don’t actually know whats really going on.

Marion
Amalia

[Flash44]

barngirl, you would only test those that are actually participating in the competition. Who cares what the grooms, trainer, spectators, 3rd cousins twice removed are on? If the groom is on drugs, he/she should be fired. Ditto the trainer.

[Snowbird]

If they were at a show then even if the feed buckets got mixed why would either horse have a drug substance?

I wasn’t referring at all to your comments but rather in the general context of excuses for something that shouldn’t have been there in any case. I resent it very much when the guy at the bottom of the pecking order is supposed to take the fall.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[licketysplit]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> There was an interesting feature on one of the morning shows today about young children with bipolar disorder… These children, as young as four years old (!) are being treated with lithium, a powerful anti-psychotic. I believe that these toddlers are diagnosed by behavior analysis rather than other medical means, ie
bloodwork, etc. So clinical evaluation suggests that they belong on this medication…
again, to me at least, an indication of how our medical professionals are eager to medicate as a first step, rather than a last resort. How much else could possibly have been done with a four-year old prior to drug treatment? We are both beneficiaries and victims of the technological advances of our society. It’s frightening but reassuring at the same time…
I guess this is a little off topic, sorry! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FYI, Lithium is an antimanic drug, not an antipsychotic. I am unclear—did you say that bipolar can be diagnosed by blood work???

[Sam_Iam]

DMK, thanks so much for responding to my post. So, it’s FIVE strikes and you’re out. Seems a bit excessive to me, particularly after all the discussion on how unlikely it is that you’ll actually be tested anyway. A whole lot of horses can concivably be drugged up for a heck of a long time before any serious penalty kicks in.

That whole calcium-thing is horrifying, and seems incredibly risky even for a cheater that likes to play the odds.

DMK, perhaps you or anyone else can address my steward question. What if a steward would have witnessed this poor horse on the ground. What would have happened? Surely this horse would not have been permitted to compete that same day.

[jumpsalot]

Midge- I think that is covered by the HippocrItic Oath

[buryinghill1]

OK, Who remembers why THIS one got set down?
BRODSKY, VALERIE E.
NEW YORK, NY 12/20/80

Triple COTH bonus points if you remember the pony

GeezLouise. After 20 years you think they’d be set down for life

[Heather]

Should probably also add it was shortly after these trials that the rider apparently severd her realtionship with the trainer and went back to running her own business, so one hopes than in fact she was “out of the loop” on this instance, and took appropriate action when she discovered she was riding a drugged horse, intentional or otherwise.

[Janet]

For people who are asking “what drug?”, please see this thread
Prolixin

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[AHorseSomeDay]

I don’t mean to open up a can of worms here but do you think that there are people in the show world who would deliberately sabotage another person’s horse so that the owner of the horse would be fined and suspended? For ex: Giving the horse drugs above the legal limits as stated in the rules by USAequestrian to get the person in trouble? This happened to someone that I know and that person was slapped with a fine even though no one knows who did it.

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoopoe:
A good therapeutic with “helpful” side effects.

FEI has a fairly strict drug policy for horses competing in CDI. The side effects of the drug (and the ones closely related to it) eliminates it from show use.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Given that Dover was reported in the USEF, I suspect the event in question may not have also been an FEI event.

Pentox is a vasodilator just like isoxoprine (legal to show on). The primary difference is that pentox is a time released vasodilator. You give it for 2X a day for 6 weeks, then you do not need to give it again for 6 months, which certainly makes it much easier to administer.

You can show on pentox if you file a D&M and withdraw 24 hours before showing, so I am always mystified* as to why anyone gets “caught” using pentox (in USEF competitions, not FEI). If you believe it works a la isox and you know it is time released, there should be no issue with withdrawing it. If it lasts 6 months, it will surely last 24 hours…

• Which brings me to my qualification of the mystification. I wonder if the horses that test positive are not on pentox at the time they are tested? As in they have completed their 6 week dosage period and are now in the 6 month period when it is supposedly still effective. And since they aren’t being given pentox, nobody thinks it is necessary to file a D&M report?

I did have one of my horses on pentox for about a year, and after I saw a few of these penalties come down (usually on trainers you would expect to be anal about filing their D&M reports) I really started to wonder about how testign and time release drugs go together. The drug didn’t do much for my horse, so I opted not to continue with it. I figure if it could test as a positive in some horses after the dosage period, the last thing I wanted was to have my name on the suspension list for basically giving a legal alternative to isox and following all rules associated with that particular drug.

Let me clarify that I don’t have any idea what the circumstances are around (any) pentox suspension/fine - for all I know trainers could be feeding it like candy. But it is not like it is perceived to have any effect/use other than the effect isox has on the long term health of the navicular bone - it’s just a bit easier to administer, and maybe a bit cheaper (a bottle is WAY MORE expensive than isox, but you only give 4 bottles a year).

Has anyone had their horse on pentox and been tested? I don’t think I was tested in the year I used it. Not that this tells us much - they may or may not have tested for that drug…

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[Two_Toofs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Two Toofs:

To me, it’s not “hard stuff”, it’s just the way it is and I guess because that’s how I’ve been brought up, it’s no big deal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since equipoise is an anabolic steroid (with all the connotations of THAT particular substance!), we will probably have to agree to disagree on which is worse - a performance enhancing, liver destroying steroid or glorified ibuprofin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

“Not the hard stuff” & “No big deal” was in reference to the post replying to what our drug rules entail - not a specific drug but the rules & regulations - meaning that they get straight to the point, but I don’t think it’s “hard stuff”, it’s what it is. You’ve read it out of context if you thought it was referring to drugs as being “hard stuff”.

That’s the difference - the non-race folks think “wow, that is extremely restrictive”, whereas to us, it’s just business as usual - no big deal, not “hard stuff”. It’s just how it is and your rules seem EXTREMELY lax to someone coming from racing.

At any rate, glorified ibuprofin has it’s draw backs as well - and also damages liver tissues - and kidney and digestive tract. Equipoise is also fallen out of favor with most trainers and most horses do NOT get Equipoise and those who do usually just do short rounds of it - they don’t stay on it all the time. However, this doesn’t stop everyone from assuming that every on the muscle high as a kite TB off the track MUST be on hormones. All drugs have potentially damaging side effects when overused or abused.

The point wasn’t “who uses worse drugs - you or me”, but the fact that our racehorses are considered “drug addicts” by sporthorse folks when in fact we are held to much higher standards when it comes to use of medications and drug testing. In light of what I’ve read on this thread (which is my first enlightenment about how meds & drug testing are handled in the sport horse world) I think everyone needs to be worrying about their own houses before throwing any more stones at the racing community (which generally seems such a popular target).

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)