<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:
Molly99?
How do you pull a Coggins on that horse??
fernie fox
“I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound”.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL That made me think, do they use tranquilizer darts on horses? LOL
If a horse or pony is suspended, can it still show? What if the owners just change the name of their barn or sales group & register the horses under ownership of the new name, with a new address?
I got to thinking about this when it was mentioned that several people had membership cards under maiden & married names.
Just curious.
Ignorance is bliss…
and I am VERY,VERY happy!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Actually, this applies to any “therapeutic rules” discipline, including eventing and dressage, as well as hunter/jumper. Does not apply to endurance. Don’t know about other disciplines. Also doesn’t apply to FEI competitions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
yea, yea, yea, but I knew what elizabeth was shooting for (unless I am mistaken and she has aimed Buster for endurance… 
No! Wait! Combined Minature Driving? Wait, I’ll get it yet - Pony Snow Boarding???)
That’s a yes’m to your 5 day question - and really you need at least a 2 day break if you are at a multiweek show
“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan
OH MY WORD!!!
The girl who part leases my horse and JUST had him at an A show this past weekend is ON THE LIST 
I’m sure it’s for non payment of whatever but crap. I’m going to have to ask her about it. How could she have even gotten her USAE card?? Um, I guess I should tell my trainer, too.
Would a non payment thing have an indefinite suspension?? She’s got no ending date.
Oh brother. Better to know than not!
Buryinghill1…Now that is funny!!! 
austinpony,
The problem I see with your first suggestion of going after the vets is that the drugs being discussed are legal drugs. There are valid reasons why a vet would choose to incorporate them in a treatment plan. They are only illegalto show on. The trainers and exhibitors are the ones who are choosing when and where to show the horse while knowing what meds it is being given.
~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~
Dressage tests are scheduled 5-10 minutes appart – In addition to needing a scribe for each judge, they use a scorer to tally scores (even at large shows when the have a second scribe who enters the scores into a laptop to display on the screen, and each judge’s score is posted on the scoreboard automatically at the completion of the test, the official scorer still figures the score from the paper scoresheets before it’s official) –
I loff all the feedback you get on a dressage scoresheet – I don’t think people are proposing giving remarks for hunter rounds which is the most time consuming part of the process (but also the most informative to me as a rider) –
I know someone whose horse was given a med in her feed that she wasn’t supposed to get. The person feeding mixed up buckets and the horse got tested.
It happens. I also know of people whose horses have had blood on them from a needle when the workers got to the horse show in the morning.
We’ve had our tack room broken into and had meds stolen.
Lotsa fun stuff happens at horse shows.
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Seriously though, I don’t fault the owners of the horses who just want to ride and not know about the details of what their horses intake. (I really don’t have the time or desire to learn what makes my car work, but I sure enjoy driving it.)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, if I take my car to the mechanic because the brakes are squeaking, and he fixes it by cutting the brake line… well, yes, I think I’m going to be unhappy with him.
Darkerhorse: I love you
~Christina~
“I made a new friend today.”
“Real or imaginary?”
“Imaginary.”
My trainer and I were talking about this yesterday. She was saying how disheartening it is sometimes to put a good kid up on a very nice horse, and have a lovely round with a bit of liveliness that the kid deals with well, only to lose to a kid on a drugged horse who went around like an automaton. It’s also hard to explain it to the parents sometimes.
However, she doesn’t have to worry when the testers come around, she knows her kids can ride, and she and the kid can really enjoy it when they do win because they earned it. 
On the Prolixin, I’ve lived in fear of that and other long-term tranqs ever since I was talking to Kent Allen at the USA Eq Annual Meeting a few years ago. Dr. Allen told the story of how he had been on show grounds as spectator when he was urgently summoned to help with a horse that had gone crazy in its stall, literally climbing the walls. They were finally able to get it calmed down, with lots and lots of tranqs, and got it on the van to the vet hospital.
It turned out the horse had been given a long-term tranq (IIRC it was Prolixin), supposedly without the owner’s knowledge, and it had the opposite of its intended effect. He said that reaction is rare but has been seen often enough, and what he saw was so gawd awful, that he won’t give the drug anymore.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
No. The rules are crystal clear for anyone with an above average reading and comprehension level.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We can’t ALL be above average. 
So what about the poor average-and-under folks out there?? (Sorry, I had to say it.)
Well, I partly agree with the comments about Eq, but MadCat, there are a heck of a lot more than 5 Eq horses in the country who go for $100k. I think the Eq classes are great, if they truly judge the rider. I think it would be great to have Eq horses that are also not automatrons. It seems like the Eq horses at the big shows are similar in their demeanor as the hunters are…they just aren’t fancy enough to make it as hunters.
“Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success” - Reiner Klimke
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beezer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Molly99:
Personally,
I would be in favor of pulling blood and urine on all ribbon winners, but picking at random from those the ones to test.
This way you know if you get a ribbon you will have the means to be tested, but you don’t really know if they test your sample or not.
A little more expensive, and an increase in the drug fee would be OK, but you wouldn’t have to really test anymore than are tested now. Nothing to say that you need to test any from a given show, but the exhibitor would not know that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ooooooohh! I really like this idea! It has many, many things going for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree. I have no idea (I am hoping that others do) what the cost of collection and storage is v. the cost of testing. Perhaps only a fraction of the horses collected are tested now. 
If so, that is sad…
But I would pay more in drug fees to collect more horses and then just store a % of the samples. Now that every horse competing must have a registration number, it would not be a hard job for a computer to keep track of stored samples on any given horse.
Then if a horse’s sample came up for testing at a show and drugs were found, all stored samples for that horse could be pulled out for testing (or all stored samples for that trainer…).
This additional testing would be paid for by the trainer or owner as part of the penalty for the first positive sample. It would show if the horse had been shown on drugs (of any sort) in the past.
Honest trainers whose horse got contaminated feed (the “Oh Star” defense) would be very happy to have other samples available to back up their claim that this was not an ongoing practice but a one time mistake.
Dirty trainers who used drugs as part of their training plan could then be given additional fines/suspensions from double (for one other positive sample) to banning for life (for 3 or 4 other positive samples.)
I have heard via the grapevine that someone will be set down for life because of repeated positive samples found in horses under his care. It has taken years to get to this ultimate penalty. But under my plan, a trainer could possibly be banned for life by retroactively testing samples associated with a horse who had one positive test, and so had all prior samples pulled for testing.
THIS ultimate penalty which could be assessed by tracing old samples back as a result of finding only ONE positive sample seems to me to be far scarier to a trainer than to have 5 separate bad samples found over a period of 20 years.
Legally, the concept of probable cause supports this plan. If a horse is found to have shown on [reserpine] at Show A, then the Federation has probable cause to suspect that it might have been shown tranquilized at prior shows, and so can test all samples held in storage from that horse.
Gosh! I LIKE this idea… And I would pay my share for additional collection and storage to have it implemented.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LH. This is flat-out brilliant.
Thanks Beezer, that’s what I meant. A lot of ammies I know will have the same horse for 10-20 years! They’re not looking to resell them. The eq rewards long term partnerships IMHO.
Of course the ongoing costs are the same and you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear but most any horse can become a reasonable ammie eq horse with some hard work. And I think it’s incredibly rewarding for the riders…
The juniors on the other hand are fighting against time, especialy at the really top levels.
There’s not alot of galloping going on at the horse shows. Some of the 3’6" horses get a good clip, but the real gallop is not a regular occurence, even with the winners.
Having supervised others in work related capacities, I can tell you that there is NOTHING worse than the person who can’t accept blame. To watch them constantly pointing the finger at others, watch them weave their stories and feed me a millions excuses is sooo frustrating and I have no respect for it. I have more respect for the person that comes clean and can accept they were culpable than those who babble, back-peddle, point fingers and aren’t man enough to own up to the issue. It’s just easier to blame everyone else!
Yes, I suppose the drugging involving Todd’s horse could have been accidental. But there suspiciously seem to be far too many of these “accidents” in our sport. I believe the riders/owners/trainers would actually come off looking better if they would concede to their culpability in these situations. Admitting they had done wrong, explaining why they had felt pressured to do so (perhaps this could even be the catalyst for some changes in our sport which many feel are so desparately needed) and acknowledging that they had cheated, were wrong and do not intend to do it again. But instead we are fed excuses of “accidents”. They don’t admit wrong doing, the issue of why these drugs are used is never addressed (and why need it be when it only showed up in the horse’s system by accident) and there is no need to “repent” because, of course, they didn’t “intentionally” do anything.
There was an interesting feature on one of the morning shows today about young children with bipolar disorder… These children, as young as four years old (!) are being treated with lithium, a powerful anti-psychotic. I believe that these toddlers are diagnosed by behavior analysis rather than other medical means, ie
bloodwork, etc. So clinical evaluation suggests that they belong on this medication…
again, to me at least, an indication of how our medical professionals are eager to medicate as a first step, rather than a last resort. How much else could possibly have been done with a four-year old prior to drug treatment? We are both beneficiaries and victims of the technological advances of our society. It’s frightening but reassuring at the same time…
I guess this is a little off topic, sorry!
No problem. The only good thing about computers at work is they are fast.
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