I haven’t read through all 27 pages…but when does said list become public knoweledge?
Actually Midge is talking about her last pony year!! 
Re: the show manager who got suspended
If someone is suspended, doesn’t that prevent them from going on to the showgrounds, even as a spectator? So this person certainly would not be able to judge or course design, because then he’d be on the grounds.
It is really too bad that many (including some who have posted on this thread) insist on maintaining that:
“In today’s world, it simply can’t be done without medications, and besides, it’s all for the horse’s benefit.”
The entire argument is turned on it’s head when the excesses (40 shows shows per year, too many horses in training), that are made possible by the overuse of medications is doggedly held up as being “for the benefit of the horse.”
Anyone who argues otherwise is held up as either ignorant of the advances of modern science, “less” of a horseman for advodating depriving horses of the benefits of these advances, or a worse abuser than anyone else, because, obviously, something is being used that can’t be tested for. Medicating, in their eyes, IS good horsemanship. Anyone who doesn’t take advantage of medication, in their eyes, is not a good horseman.
Bottom line is that anyone who has never learned to be adept at keeping horses sound without resorting to medications on a regular basis would be like a fish out of water if the rules are changed, and if they had to stay away from the medications, their entire program of training would be thrown into a state of chaos. An expensive proposition, if they were to negotiate such a learning curve. So the bottom line IS the bottom line. I wonder how many of these so called “horsemen” would bother to attend a veterinary/horsemanship seminar focused on “Soundness, in a Zero Tolerance Environment.”
Really scary thoughts
The neighbors on the next aisle at a horse show sprinkle your bagged feed, or supplements, or hay, or whatever with something illegal.
Or an employee (disgruntled or otherwise) who does the same.
Or a customer…
Or the nightwatch guys…
I’m with those who think that it isn’t a good or practical idea to have a rule that only vets can give IV shots at a USEF rated horse show.
If my mare needs a shot of legend, I’m already paying $85 for it when my trainer gives it. It seems pejorative for me to have to pay a vet, who would charge even more, to do something that my trainer is capable of doing and is in compliance with the d&m rules (since legend is allowed).
It would be great for the vets, because they would increase the profits they make, but not practical for the rest of us. And as jumphigh points out, those of us complying with the rules would have to pay more, those who bend or break the rules would continue to do so.
Harsher penalties for those who break the rules is fine with me, so is the idea of having USEF archive names of those who have been suspended and make them available. Asking those of us who comply to pay even more doesn’t seem like a logical solution to the problem.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by holy smoke:
clearound-you do not know that for a fact. it has not been posted and right now it is just gossip. That is why I am eager for the USAE to post all the details…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Holy Smoke - Please don’t assume that I am starting gossip. For reasons that I cannot disclose, I do know this for a fact.
I don’t know why everyone is so shocked with the suspension list.
It’s been a well known fact for years, that some trainer’s medicate their horses for the show ring.
Why is it when a BNT takes a hit, nobody can believe it??
Come on guys open your eyes! 
hmmmm…I have to wonder, if that trainer was suspended due to something serious and worrisome, HOW his/her riders can in good conscious continue to keep their horses with that person and train with that stable? The riders HAVE to realize they are helping the trainer skirt the suspension when they’re getting feedback via headset – can they really feel good about their rides knowing that? I know I couldn’t…
C. Boylen,
quote:
“If you buy a high six-figure, winning horse for a client, and it turns out it doesn’t win on your program (or leaves your client hanging from the rafters), are you going to say,“darn, we made a mistake, oh well, let’s go buy another one”? Or are you going to try to figure out whatever the hell it was that the previous trainer did to get it to the ring?”
“…but they don’t want to know. They want to ride, and enjoy their horses, and show. They want to be able to leave the barn and go for a swim, or lunch, or shopping, not hang around until feeding time to watch what goes in the buckets. These are the people that sponsor shows, and pay their trainers daycare, and purchase horses. We need them. These people support our business. That’s your key word. This is a business, an industry, and it’s a SERVICE industry.”
“People with more knowledge would look at the situation, decide whether or not to believe their trainer’s side of the story, and weigh their options regarding other trainers.”
I don’t know you personally, and I don’t have anything against you personally. I can only go by what you have posted here. If I have misinterpreted these words then I apologize most sincerely. I’m not sure I have.
I keep hearing excuses for using illegal drugs to cheat at horse shows so trainers can keep their clients happy. I realize this will probably go on until the end of time, human nature being what it is. This doesn’t mean that I have to ignore it.
I need to try and be more accurate in my thoughts.
I know that the drugs are legal, it is about their illegal uses where the vets need some education. I’m also not suggesting that the show vets give shots, but that vets in general become more responsible in the quantity of drugs they supply to trainers. I am suggesting that vets be certified by USEF and used to collect blood at shows rather than rely on a random system of testers who - as mentioned previously in this thread - can only be at maybe 1 out of every 6 horseshows.
As for monetary damages, my thought is that the sale value or the breeding value may be hurt because the horse didn’t win or place. The redistribution of prize money is really minor, unless we’re talking about some of the Grand Prix purses.
Finally, I pose a dilemma: at a recent schooling show in NOVA, a Middleburg-based trainer rode out of the ring after schooling with one of his adult clients on another horse at his side. She remarked at how great her horse was going. His reply was that “yeah, it’s amazing what alittle Ace can do.” And, they both laughed.
Now: this was a schooling show. Other people were around and heard him. We all exchanged rather shocked looks. But what can you do at a schooling show?
Anyone have any ideas?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
FEI is zero tolerance. Hay, oats, water.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Plus Legend and Adequan. Just thought I’d mention that before people start accosting individuals seen bearing a syringe at an FEI event 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WHere did you find this?
I just went through the FEI Veterinary rules, and the ONLY exemptions for administering anything AT the competition is for re-hydration and for antibiotics.
There are “thresholds” for “substances endogenous to horses”. Legend and Adequan might fit that, which would mean that you could use them BEFORE the compeition started, as long as you were below the threshold when tested.
But it also says:
“Any person other than a veterinarian authorised by the Veterinary Committee/Delegate found in possession of syringes, needles or any Prohibited Substances will be deemed to have contravened these Regulations and is liable to be penalised.”
So “individuals seen bearing a syringe at an FEI event” are in violation of the rules, unless they are official vets.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
I believe a horse is suspended if their owner is suspended. So if Person A is suspended any horses owned entirely or partly by them is also suspended.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Peggy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(From Darker Horse)
It (dex) is a steroid. The rule applies to NSAIDS. Why do you think the drug is legal?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Had a brain bobble and forgot that the stacking rule applied to NSAID’s only and not all AID’s. My mistake.
With respect to the legality of dex, I recalled that it was legal below some threshold and then referred to your post where you cited a limit of 5 cc/day. Based on the USEF publication whose title starts with “Practical Advice…” on http://www.usef.org/content/drugsMeds/ it’s a bit more complex than that–they refer to mg per 100 lbs of body mass and give amounts for 12 hours before, IV 6 hours before, and oral 6 hours before.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It’s so weird how everyone gives dex differently. We used to give 8cc of the ‘strong’ (I think 4mg/ml) stuff once per week a day and a half before the main day of showing. I heard of people doing 10cc a day, and my vet said most of their horses won’t founder, but they have definitely foundered one or two doing that. Then other people do 1cc before every class. It is so weird.
And now the AHSA has so many different ‘options’ in their practical advice section. It is so weird.
OK but who knows, do we still make a D & M report form for dex?
Why D’ya Do It?
Not only that but what are the odds that a horse is “accidently” fed the wrong feed the same day (or within a day or two) it is drug tested. It doesn’t play right.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What about stuff like regumate or depo? Is that illegal? Why are some drugs legal (dex and bute and isoxoprene, etc) or stuff like magnesium? Sorry if this has been asked before: I didn’t go through the entire thread<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Regumate and Depo are legal at regular h/j shows. Legal drugs are legal on the recommendations of the USEF drugs and medications committee. Check your rulebook and the drugs and meds download for more information.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I see your point, but wonder why both drugs would have to be administered on the show grounds. It isn’t like either of them is going to lose efficacy over a couple of days. So the case of those particular two (and Adequan is IM, anyway), the argument doesn’t hold. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
A good deal of us live on the horse show grounds. It is necessary to give both legend and adequan at shows when one is on show grounds for weeks at a time. I’m not sure why you feel Adequan being IM makes a difference, as the original question refered to ‘via syringe’ and this question to ‘injection’, both of which still apply to IM as well as IV.
LimoWrek - I agree with your diagnosis!! unfortunately!
Very scary and dangerous stuff!
Well said Snowbird. Unless there are several changes nothing will happen. There’s just too much at stake. Money, ambition and just plain greed…
[This message was edited by radio talk on Dec. 12, 2003 at 05:44 PM.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Medeline wins the “Best Use of Four Syllable Words in One Sentence Award”
WELL DONE, Madeline! Your 3’ high gold painted aluminum statuette, with a fake silver nameplate on the bottom will be to you soon. 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, transmogrification is one of my favorite words, and it’s tough to use in a sentence. Carphology is another, and that’s even more difficult to place…
I’ll be watching my mail.
madeline
