THE suspension list

[CAJumper]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
I seriously doubt those owners didn’t know what was going on. At least they most likely had some glimmer of an idea what was going on.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree. They are definitely being billed for it so they must know.

I’ve overheard versions of this too many times: “Oh no, Calcium is natural for them - if anything, a little extra calcium is good for your horse. And it will probably help make him a little quieter, and it doesn’t test so there’s nothing to worry about!”

I can’t tell you how mad this makes me. For so many different reasons.

The Ca/Mg thing is very common. I think the saddest part is that some vets are actually selling mass quantities of it to trainers, fully knowing what it’s being used for. Very sad.

I hope that these threads have helped educate a few more owners.

[Jake_s_Dad]

take blood from the top 3 in every class…but i dont think you will have anyone at the shows…and shows will be unrecognized with a lot of money classes with big bucks…thats where we will be heading…i wonder how many people are not going to hits this year and west palm?////

[dab]

So has anyone seen the Dec/Jan issue of Equestrian? I know someone had mentioned the more recent hearings were held after the publication deadline so I didn’t expect to see notices for Jeff Ayers or Todd, but I thought it might contain the notice for Don Stewart –

Has the other thread determined what needs to be done (rule change?) to get these notices posted and archived on the USEF site –

Does anyone know the approximate cost of each USEF blood test? I’m wondering how many blood tests a $5000 fine would pay for – I suspect the cost of monitoring all horses shown while in the care of a BNT for a year is much more than $5000 –

[Portia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
And, unfortunately, as I said before, rest doesn’t deal with the horse that stays just a little too fresh for the judges who won’t allow a little play on the corners, or a head shake when a hold is taken. Until the performances are allowed to have a little spice and brilliance, the choices are hours on the lunge line or “something” to deaden them. I don’t like either choice, but know which one I would prefer.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that’s the big thing, isn’t it? The “ideal” that has been set that doesn’t allow horses to act like horses, but requires that they act like mindless automatons. That’s where a change can be made, without interfering with a lot of people’s livelihoods (except maybe those of the drug manufacturersa nd lunge line makers).

If a proposed change adversely impacts too many peoples’ pocketbooks, like limiting the number of shows a horse can show at, then as a practical matter it will not be adopted. However, if the standard could be changed and judges could be taught to reward brilliance rather than mechanical precision, then that would help immensely.

Those kind of changes can be achieved, with concerted effort – look at Western Pleasure, where the standards have recently been changed to reward more forwardness and spark, and not that head-in-the dirt lunged-to-death look (the Western equivalent of our hunter look).

[Two_Toofs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Turns out they developed a test for whatever the latest drug de jour is, only they were kind enough to tell everyone about that test about 6 weeks out from the Breeder’s Cup (so as to avoid a PR debacle). Sort of makes that ever expanding scratch list for the classic a little more 'splainable, now doesn’t it? And the longshots that won that day? Gee wonder how THAT happened? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly accurate information here. The big “scandal” was/is over blood doping (EPO/Epogen usage - started off in human runners & cyclists). Testing has been underway (and reported in major publications) for over a year now. The problem with testing for the antibodies left behind by blood doping is that they remain with the horse for 120 days and horses can change hands via claiming or other ways during that time frame.

Rules are still not completely in effect for tests involving this drug as they are trying to figure out how to handle them (all the while still testing anyway - and you don’t know if you tested positive for it or not at this point most places, you aren’t told) and the EPO testing was announced LONG before this year’s Breeder’s Cup and after last year’s. They are keeping track, all the while figuring out how to implement rules that make it fair - proposing at this point that any horses that test positive are banned from racing until they produce a negative test.

Strangely enough, last year’s Breeder’s Cup was held in a state that allows no NSAIDs on raceday - nothing other than Lasix. And they all seemed to manage just fine.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diKecnadnuS:
So what about a little pony kid whose parents know NOTHING about horses? Are they expected to research the meds too?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They’d be well advised to do so.
I’ll never forget the night a boarder/friend was showing her junior hunter to a couple with a child. They had already been out three times to try the horse, once showing up about an hour early.
This time, after the kid caught the horse in the mouth for the 3rd time, as Abbi and I cringed, he took it upon himself to explain to her that that was no way to ride, and promptly unloaded her.
Abbi, horrified, turned to the parents, sure they were going to go ballistic.
Dad was whipping out his checkbook, and talking about a deposit and a PPE.
Mom explained that they’d been taken by their first trainer, who sold them a pony who was downright nuts if not drugged. Hence, they had gone shopping sans trainer, arriving early to see if the horse were being longed to death or drugged,and were delighted when he was alert enough to drop his shoulder and deposit Daughter in the dirt.
they were almost aplogetic about saying they were going to have blood drwn for a drug screen.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[Portia]

I agree with that the ideas of limiting the number of shows or having year end awards calculated on an average basis, or possibly that would be better stated as the ideals of such limits. Those limits would be better for the horses’ well-being in the long-run.

The big problem with that – and the reason it will never happen – is that the show managers and the people who make their livings off of shows will never, ever agree to such a thing – and those people collectively are very, very powerful in USA Eq/USEF.

If you limit the number of shows a horse can do, or make point chasing by doing lots of shows “unnecessary,” that means fewer entries at shows and ultimately fewer shows. That means less money for show managers, and less work for licensed officials, show secretaries, trainers, coaches, pro riders … As a practical matter, these people simply are not ever going to support limiting the number of shows at which a horse can compete.

Their attitude is that it is the responsibility of the horse owner and trainer to decide what kind of show schedule a horse should have, not the Federation. That is not going to change.

What can change, however, is the attitude that cheating to win (and that’s not limited to illegal drugging) is OK because “everybody does it.” There are a great many people at USEF who are trying to make that change happen.

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by twinklepony88:
i wouldnt judge a certain trainer/person unless you know the real story of why they are suspended etc.
~erin~

-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The “real story”, as you phrase it, is that they had horses tested which came back with positive results for prohibited substances, and they were found culpable after a hearing.

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[GodivaGirl]

I was talking with my vet today about the recent “scandal”. He used to be on the AHSA drug committee and is still very well connected and up to date in that area. According to him the trainers were using prolixion and phenobarbital together in a sort of cocktail.

“I had a pony once, it was a shetland! Or it might have been a clydesdale…”-Random English Guy

[Black_Market_Radio]

I don’t CARE if it was recommended by a vet. It is against the RULES to give a horse ANYTHING with the intent to change it’s behavior. HOW HARD OF A CONCEPT IS THAT TO GRASP???

Here are the Devilpups!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87
I un-clog my nose at you, you brightly coloured, mealy-templed, cranberry-smelling, electric donkey-bottom biter!’
TTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHBBBBBBB!!!

[Portia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darkerhorse:
Maybe the vet doesn’t know AHSA rules. The AHSA can do whatever they want. This isn’t law. They don’t need ‘jurisdiction.’ The worst thing they could do to a vet is ban him from horse shows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
USA Eq/USEF does require jurisdiction to be able to act against an individual. The person has to be a member of the org or on the grounds of a recognized show.

Rules and rules enforcement is a matter of law, in that if the organization does not follow its established procedures, and if those procedures are not deemed to be fair and reasonable, the sanctions it imposes can be challenged in court and will be thrown out, and the org can be liable for damages. USA Eq/USEF’s hearings and discipline procedures have been challenged in court many times – perhaps most notably by George Lindemann, Jr. when he was suspended for horse killing and then sued for a huge amount in damages because the AHSA “interfered” with his business by kicking him out. The AHSA/USA Eq and now USEF procedures have been consistently upheld by the courts, and the org is very conscientious serious about following them.

[CBoylen]

How, and where, did I say it was okay?
What I said basically boils down to the fact that you, and anyone else who posts on these boards, are not the average client. You take time out of your day to learn about horses from a website, and gain knowledge from there and outside sources. You can’t expect all clients to know the things you do and behave the way you would. How is that advocating illegal drug use?

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
When deciding the penalty, the Committee noted that as members of the Hospitality Committee, the officials’ behavior was especially inappropriate…"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OOOH. Proof that USAE has a sense of humor

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[buryinghill1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by shade:
Does anyone else remember Haladol(sp) from back in the mid 80"s…another case of “oh look a new non-testable drug must be out as no one is out ltd’ing today”…I do<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Me too
Halodol is nasty, nasty stuff that’ll make your horse sick. Just like reserpine
“…Haloperidol is a butyropherone derivative with antipsychotic properties that has been considered particularly effective in the management of hyperactivity, agitation, and mania. …”

[NinaL_aka_Chrissy]

Note: I snipped some of the quotes because this is getting a little long.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:

Why would you inject a sound and healthy horse?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe from reading other people’s posts and by talking to others that some people are using the medications to make the horse feel comfortable much in the way they would take an Advil or Aleve at the end of a long day of work. I also recall a conversation with a trainer who gave a gram of Bute so the horse would not suffer a stone bruise if the horse stepped on a rock. Once I explained that it would be like taking an aspirin in the morning to prevent a headache from a rock hitting your head I think he got my point.

I would love to see part of the penalty phase include attendence at a mandatory educational seminar put on by one of the vets on the D&M committee. Expenses to be paid by the attendee and you need to pass the quiz at the end of the day to “graduate” and be reinstated.

You are not going to reform everybody doing this but even if you get 10% to wise up anything is better than nothing.

I think you could seriously scare some people if you presented the stuff right. Look at what “Blessed are the Broodmares” has done to scare off neophytes to the breeding industry .

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Wouldn’t the requirement for the meds to be administered by a vet help to alleviate the overuse of unneccessary medications? I’m not picking on you, I know you don’t use meds in this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It may stop or slow down some people but it is much more punitive to the person who plays by the rules. Somebody is going to have to pay for the increased labor and you can bet it is not going to be the show management or the USEF. The big guys with the huge show bills probably will not feel it either.

I have some huge problems with the current D&M committee (I know, sacrilege around this parts) and the rules in general. However, my problems are much more geared toward what I perceive as inconsistencies in the rule (why is Dex okay but Pred not and why are anabolic steroids okay) and the way they dispense the sanctions than the current NSAIDs rules, etc.

And for those that think there is not a problem with anabolic steroids - well, go have a look at the Arab and stockhorse world.

Nina

[lauriep]

It isn’t always the trainer’s desire for the “dead hunter walking” look. Many times, the rider simply doesn[t want a horse that pulls AT ALL. Where a pro would be happy to finesse this animal, and actually get a brilliant ride, the amateur isn’t interested in having any kind of a contest with the horse, and so the trainer is stuck with getting his client the mount they desire.

This was the case in much of what I was involved in back in the 70’s. Not all, but a lot, came from the riders…

This isn’t an excuse, by any means, but it also isn’t always the trainers who should be catching hell here. Yes, they have ultimate responsibility, but you have to understand the pressure that a big moneyed client can exert on a trainer who has bought a nice horse for a lot of money, but the client isn’t satisfied and wants it “quieter.” It really is a “rock and a hard place” kind of scenario.
Laurie

[Tackpud]

DMK - have to agree - it must be something that tests like Reserpine. At least I hope so… Although I am constantly amazed by what some people try to tell me - such and so is legal, it’s ok if you tranqualize a horse and just take it out of competition for 24 hours, and so on - read your rule book guys!

[Black_Market_Radio]

Actually, my mechanic is married to my best friend… Otherwise I WOULD make sure that my car is being properly cared for!!! There are too many crooks out there in the world.

I think it IS the business of the horse owner to know what is going on with their horse. I ask my vet billions of questions, and it doesn’t bother her. She explains everything to me in a way I can understand, and I am more knowledgeable for it. I won’t just blindly hand over my horse to someone and say “Yeah, go ahead, do whatever you want to do, I don’t need to know anything!” Yes, I trust the trainers that I use. They are also willing to explain the hows and whys of their programs, which is important to me. I want to be informed, bottom line.

Here are the Devilpups!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/angelgregory87
I un-clog my nose at you, you brightly coloured, mealy-templed, cranberry-smelling, electric donkey-bottom biter!’
TTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHBBBBBBB!!!

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Linus, one would probably have to ask the hearing committee exactly how much intent plays in the severity of the punishment. Me thinks, quite a bit since some of the suspenions are as long as 6 mo. It is hard for anyone of us to know exactly what was heard unless we sat on the committee…

[Portia]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SGray:
I would suggest that it would be reasonable to have a drug testing fee = avg. class fee

in my area/discipline that would be ~$35 per show vs the current $10 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh S, you should have seen what they had to go through last year just to get the fee increased from $8 to $10.