THE suspension list

[jumpsalot]

Exit- my horse was going to be put down because he was an unmanagable stallion.This was not from ONE person, but from a whole lot of people in the business-hunt people, hunter/jumper, racing and just plain horse folk.

Fortunately for him & for me, I found all of this out post purchase.

I WAS going to keep him intact, not knowin his previous reputation, however, as a former pro, who taught children, I realized that I needed to have this horse gelded if I wanted to buy him.

I realized this a week before I bought him. We were at a horse show & I needed to run to the girl’s room between rides & jogs. I handed off the horse I was waiting to jog to a 12 year old.
I guess some of my best thinking occurs as I am wrestling those breeches back up, but I realised then & there, that if that horse was going to be mine, he had to be gelded, along with learning some major ground work.

OK- so I just realised that this was a longer post than I anticipated, but I had to say, I know my horse has a longer life than he would have had & I hope a better one–because of being gelded.

OK- I will make it thread related- people have accused me of drugging this horse this year because he was SO quiet!These same people accused me of drugging their horse since it is not as quiet at the new barn & with a new trainer. Can we say–TURNOUT?

[Jumphigh83]

DMK …I agree, sort of…the judging criteria needs to NOT read MANNERS performance soundness…maybe performance soundness and SUITABLILITY…there for a teetering amateur living through a buck would not pin over a less brilliant steadier ride…BUT IF a secure capable amateur enjoys a playful celebration with his/her horse (and it is a brilliantly jumped round) then go ahead and PIN it HIGH! The suitablity issue would be a bit of a judgement call(opinion) but then most of the hunter judging is!

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com

Lead, follow, or get out of the way…

[elizabeth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
But if you would like to lunge him for a while, I have some very good trainer recommendations…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually have a half-full bottle of Ace, AND I have an almost full bottle of Reserpine. If I hit him up with both of those, and stick him on the lunge line for an hour or so, I imagine Buster will magically turn into a daisy-cutting bay WB! AA’s, here I come!

[Snowbird]

Amen! Flash44 that’s really what free enterprise means. We choose whether winning is the most important thing in the world. And, so what if you’re not end of the year for some little association with 400 members and maybe 20 in a division. It means you’re only the best of 20 other people who happen to also be members.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[Tiramit]

Actually, along the education lines, I’d love to have an equine version of the human “Pill Book,” which lists every kind of drug available, why it could be prescribed, common reactions, hazards of combining with another, and the long-term affects of that drug. More than once has a vet prescribed something I later found out wasn’t the best / safest choice (different vets), but had no way to double-check his advice. Heck, I’ve been handed a series of poorly labeled, prepared shots in a single baggy that I’ve had to go back and clarify which was which - and these were drugs with which I was familiar! Internet searches and asking trainers (who, we’ve established could have an ulterior motive) and friends will only get one so far…

…
“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford

[DancingPretense]

I agree that it wouldn’t wipe out showing, 3 strikes I think would make people think seriously about why they are in this sport and if they can in-fact continue and play by the rules.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ridenyc

[Nix]

Can a rider still compete on the international level if they are suspended from the USA Eq (USEF or whatever the name is now) ?

I’m just curious because Todd Minikus regularly competes in World Cup events and such… can he still do that?

~ Riding… the art of keeping the horse between you and the ground. ~

[clearound]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D@!$y:
I do not want to further unfounded rumors, as yet, we are all in the dark as to the circumstances but I wonder why Don S. has a longer suspension than Jeff A. or Todd M. We are talking just a month here but how is the time span determined?

Daisy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are no guidelines that are used by the hearing committee to determine the length of suspension and/or the fine. It is totally up to the committee’s discretion. One of the reasons that trainer A may get a longer suspension or bigger fine than trainer B is due to past infractions or the drug that was used.

[lucky2day99]

Betsy-- drugs have different effects on different bodies. My mother had been injected with a cortisteroid and said it made her feel woozy and almost… ambivalent about everything (her words not mine).

For example, Sudafed makes me almost fall on my face flat because I get so tired and drowsy. My bf could take the same red pill and be wired as if on an adrenaline high.

Christina

[jumpsalot]

DMK- LOL here - literally. Cozmo, as usual, opted for the gap distance to the dog!

[Ash]

Right on Portia! Here in lies the problem. Until they change the way they judge the hunters things ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. Anyone who has ever actually hunted will tell you a tired horse is a danger in the field. In Ireland I sometimes changed horses 2 times on a really rough day for that exact reason.

In all honesty what percentage of horses are fit, fancy, good movers and jumpers, big strided and DEAD quiet? One in 10,000? Maybe more?

---

“I’m not going to have reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president.”
– Hilary Clinton

[Bodacious]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by batgirl:
Oh, this is just so depressing.

I was out to dinner with some girlfriends over the weekend, one of whom is still active in ‘A’ shows. She mentioned two local BNTs that have been set down for the next few months. Our other friend said “everyone does it, it is just these two who got caught”. It makes me sick that trainers…TRAINERS, you know - people who are supposed to TRAIN HORSES to be athletes, who are supposed to care for them are the very people who drug their horses.

I don’t know - I’m an idealist, I suppose.

One of the trainers who got set down has a HUGE barn, way more clients than he can handle - no wonder he takes shortcuts, I suppose. There is no way on earth that he can have the time to train as many horses as he has. I’ve seen the local BNTs who sit on their favorite horses for training - maybe 20 minutes (for hunters). The rest of the horses get passed off to an assistant or another client to ride. When one focuses on quantity over quality, I would imagine that’s when drugs come into play.

I’m not very well spoken about this topic because there are so many thoughts running through my head.

It is just a sad state of affairs for the horses, and the riders who truly want to become horsemen/women and actually learn something and do the right thing.

“Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success” - Reiner Klimke<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It boils down to one thing…$$$$$$$$$$$!

[Blinky]

I just reread the Suspension list. Our assumption for those people who have an indef. period of suspension is that they owe money. That is the majority of the list. Do they go to Collections? What does USEF do to get them to pay up? That is a lot of money not getting paid and in the long run costs you and me.

[horselesswonder]

I’m not saying it is OK to drug your horses and cheat to win. But thinking about it from a business perspective and a trainer’s point of view, I can see where the temptation lies, and it’s not just in hanging blue ribbons on the tack room door, I think.

Think about it this way: a trainer has convinced a client to drop six figures on a horse, or maybe multiple horses. Now the client must also pay hefty boarding, training, daycare, coaching, riding fees, etc. Plus entry fees, plus housing for client and trainer. (This is assuming someone who follows “the circuit” as Stewart does.)

Now, wouldn’t that client damn well expect to win? And what would happen to the trainer if the client, after spending so much money, did not win? Adios, trainer. So I would imagine there are trainers out there who resort to undesireable tactics to deliver the goods and keep their clients happy. Not suggesting it is OK, but saying that this could be part of the motivation to do whatever it takes to win.

[shade]

Does anyone else remember Haladol(sp) from back in the mid 80"s…another case of “oh look a new non-testable drug must be out as no one is out ltd’ing today”…I do

[Ridin_Fool]

After reading all this, I have two very random thoughts:

1. So, drug testing is random, correct? This summer, I started to think they were following me from show to show. I was tested at 3 out of 5 shows - I was in the ribbons at each show but at various levels (from 1st to 6th). I don’t even give my horse bute at a show, so it didn’t worry/bother me, but after reading all of this, why bother testing and re-testing the same horse/rider combo who consistently shows up negative? Why not use the time and $$ to test someone else who had not been tested recently? Or keep tabs on someone recently off suspension?

2. I am very disappointed to see Todd’s name on the list. Probably the best thing he could do is confront comments and rumors head-on. Mike McCormack wasn’t being facetious about his 10-month “vacation”, he just isn’t hiding from the press, instead chose to playfully say what he’ll do with his time. One could take it as flippant. Remember when Hugh Grant was caught with a hooker? He was scheduled on Jay Leno the following night - easily could have cancelled and cowered. Fresh from jail, he took it on the chin, dealt with it publically and had very little damage done to his career. Brilliant. Doesn’t make what he did right… I’m talking “brilliant” PR and damage control.

If I remember correctly, didn’t McClain Ward do an interview with Ken Kraus on Towerheads immediately following the “chips in the boots” scandal? This allowed McClain to tell his side of the story and then, people could form their opinion.

3. I’ve said for years, the A Circuit would make a great soap opera. Instead of the “OC”, we’ve got the “AC”!

[flshgordon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SGray:
flshgordon - I want to clarify that my question to you is not meant to be snide in any way, just an inquiry regarding the relative values to you - or any competitor

“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
no offense taken!!! I just wondered if I was the only one who thinks the numbers don’t add up. I guess I am

“Half the failures in life arise from pulling in one’s horse as he is leaping”

[Flash44]

Dads don’t have to be present when a child is born.

Don’t know anything specific about Lindemann, though

[MHM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clearound:

I don’t think the suspensions are effecting WEF this year. From what I have seen and heard, it will the biggest WEF ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The biggest WEF ever?!?
<shudder>

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Midge:
I have witnessed a couple of the BN show vets administering calcium. I would think this would cause a problem with the, ‘First, do no harm’ part of the Hippocratic oath.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don’t think the Oath is part of veterinary education or ethics. Vets do what owners tell them to do, and are secondarily concerned (if that) with what is “best” for the horse in question.

One example (not to stir up emotions, but it’s a black and white example): castration. The decision is almost always based on what is best/easiest for the owner, not what is best for the horse physically. Not saying this is good or bad, just picking an obvious example where owner needs clearly take priority over horse health in terms of veterinary care.

Sadly, there are lots of vets out there who (irrespective of the Oath being relevant to veterinary work or not) are all too willing to hit horses with lots of hard/dangerous meds to make them show better. Not all vets, and I think in the last few decades we’ve seen an increase in the number of vets who really do care about the horses and not just the money. But there’s still too many “needle happy” vets out there.

I’d say the same positive trend is in effect in the trainer world as well, which is a good thing. We need more trainers who eschew underhanded tactics that turn their horses into miserable, unsound, robotic beings to earn ribbons in the hunter ring.

The truly great horsemen have always known and felt with their souls that caring first and foremost for the horses is the only path to success and true beauty. Sadly, for every true horseman in our sports, there are ten who lack the skills and conviction to really follow the true path and instead try anything to “steal success.”

There’s too few trainer in our sport - even with the positive trends I just mentioned - who truly love and care for the horses in their care as friends and peers, not just expensive toys that get them fancy ribbons at shows. In turn, the students who are taught by the trainers with impure hearts mostly grow up to follow that sad path themselves, and the cycle continues.

In jumpers, at least, I firmly believe that those of us who love and care for our horses with respect and integrity will ALWAYS out-compete the folks who try to take unpleasant shortcuts. Not every day will we come out on top, but over time the structure of the sport really does reward trainers who can “build” healthy, happy, positive, friendly, at-peace competitive horses who love their lives and love their jobs.

Regards,

D. Spink

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hengststation Exitpoint
http://www.stallions.net
. . . Integrative Stallion Management.