Buryinghill1, do you really mean that there will be 60 on the upcoming USAE suspension list? No exaggeration?!?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
(OK that is very obvious if you gave your horse banamine on monday, you better not give him bute on Thursday, but even 2 weeks apart has me a little leery).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Forgive my ignorance, but why can’t you give banamine on Monday and Bute on Thursday?
Thank you.
If Barney Ward is suspended, how can he be the registered owner of the suspended horses?
Dogs will come and dogs will go and I will love them all…but ROSIE is forever.
I’ve been following the storm cloud gathering about this impending mega-suspension. I’m also dismayed by the “They’ll just set up shop off campus and no one will ever know” attitude.
Man, if these busts are for using psychotropic(?) drugs, I would like to see USAE write to the owners (or parents of the owners) of the busted horses and describe the effects and side effects of the drugs.
I guess that if I was a completely oblivious parent intent only on having little Buttercup be a Winner with a BNT, I could shrug off the suspension when said BNT explained that it was no big deal and that it made things “better” for Buttercup. If I got an official letter detailing just how these drugs work and why they were cause for suspension I might consider reordering my priorities.
Just a thought.I doubt that any of the higher ups at USAE would have the strength to make such a bold move.
Maybe the Chronicle could do something…
madeline
Yes I agree Gazzu.
Having been on the Vet side of working with drugs, a vet doing this would be risking some big consequence, taking his / her staff with them ( out of a job time)
The penalties are way to slight but the USAEq has created its own monster. Point chasing for year end awards is contributing to this problem.
_\]
– * > hoopoe
The ancient Greeks did not write obituaries. They only wanted to know if you had a passion.
Yeah, hoopoe, the Ulla incident rather confuses me as well. I know it’s just anecdotal, but I remember when a vet suggested using testosterone to induce weight gain in my young thoroughbred. It did help with his appetitite but we had to scratch shows not because we were afraid of testing but because he was completely unrideable for a month. Hard to believe anyone wouldn’t notice the difference!
Back to the topic of the suspensions. I know someone on the latest list, who is being set down and fined. He is not a member of the AHSA(when it was called that, and isn’t a member of whatever it’s called now). Can someone tell me exactly how that works 
I think there have been some that got into 3 digit page numbers
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barngirl73:
Not so sure I agree with you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah well can’t win em all 
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats
So…I noticed that a west coast trainer is now on the list for a rather long suspension. Has it been announced why yet? I didn’t see any of his horses’ names on the suspended horse list, so I’m curious as to what happened.
I’m assuming that this is the barn that khobstetter mentioned in her other thread (“suspend the horse”), as his barn is still showing at Indio. What barn name are they now showing under?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:
…A conversatin that GOT NO thumbs up from the competitors BUT the Vets want…
Only a vet can give IV shots on the show grounds…much resistence.
Much conversation about ALL vets who treat competition horses must be USEF members ad sign in at the off ice if they are on grounds…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
boy - that would tick off the druggers
makes sense - if your horse is ill and needs an iv then it needs a vet and/or should not be competing
and membership would be the only way for USEF to have ability to santion bad behavior
“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
In general, I would like to see any horse with a positive test LOSE all annual points accumulated up to that point in time. Start 'em over again at zero.
<<Unbeknowst to you and the vet, the tests have become more sensitive, and come back with a positive test.>>
Attention, please! Just because tests have become more sensitive, doesn’t mean they are being used for the first time on a show horse’s blood sample, and suddenly, what was OK one day (clipping two weeks out or whatever it is) becomes not ok the next (now you have to clip 65 days out). How do you suppose they determine that “this” test is more sensitive than “that” test to begin with? They perform trials! TRIALS! THEY KNOW HOW SENSITIVE THE TESTS ARE, AND WHAT THE RESULTS OF THE TESTS MEAN. It does not mean that suddenly, you can never use Ace to clip for fear of being tested positive by some newer more sensitive test.
This argument is just one more effort by the “defense” to make excuses for not wanting to follow the rules. (And when it doesn’t work, they develop bizarre feeding routines in which feed buckets get “mixed up,” etc.).
Oh come on. Get over it!
The sensitivity of the test does not change whatever happens in a horse’s system in reaction to a medication. It just measures “whatever” better. But rest assured, they aren’t trying it out for the first time on YOUR blood sample.
Weatherford’s suggestion, BTW, is one of the best ideas I’ve seen in a long time, and I know she’s described it before, but this is the first time I’ve seen her explain it that way, and now I “get” it and I’m intrigued, really I am.
A nurse friend and I looked up the two drugs mentioned above in her drug reference book and the two are noted NOT to be mixed. Both, I think, are anti-psychotics.
“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V
Applause for the suggestion of pulling and storing samples. I would support that rule change. However, it seems to me that we’d still be fighting the symptoms and not the cause of the problem, which to this observer (and admittedly, I have lots more to learn about the sport), has more to do with what judges are rewarding in the hunters.
For example, maybe I’m naive, but I certainly have never, ever heard of people regularly tranquilizing their horses in dressage or on the first day of an event, even though a calm, obedient horse is of competitive benefit there. The culture of the sport doesn’t support it, and the judges don’t reward it because each movement is judged independently: you can have a snort or a fart around in one corner and still get an 8 on a medium trot. Perhaps if there was a widespread movement to re-educate hunter judges so that a horse with a bit of sparkle in its eye or a tiny bounce in the corner isn’t penalized in favor of an LTD?
I confess naivete, but this entire thread shocks and horrifies me. I cannot believe that people would inject calcium and magnesium, let alone reserpine, that people would tie their horse’s head up all night or lunge a horse to exhaustion. To me, this is the stuff of The Monday Horses, not what the genuinely decent and horse-loving folks I know who show H/J do. How profoundly disappointing to hear of it, and worse, that it has occurred in barns of people I always thought to be the top echelon of the sport.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ghazzu:
One does wonder though, why a horse which needs reserpine because it is laid up, is at a horse show.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For most of us that live on the road, making arrangements to lay over a laid up horse, or to leave trustworthy help at home to take care of them becomes too problematic. Most of the time the non-showing horses are transported around with the rest, to keep help and equipment together, and to insure the proper caretaking of the injured horse. For Todd to leave a particularly valuable horse like Oh Star behind would be unlikely.
Now THAT is a comprehensive list. My brother is on it and he doesnt even ride.
OK…since it’s gotten colder here again and the flames won’t feel so hot 
I’ll go ahead and say this:
I’m sorry, but the issue of drugging or not drugging NOT for any therapeutic purpose using legal, known, carefully chosen meds but simply to artificially enhance performance or rideability IS BLACK AND WHITE.
I don’t care what the pressures are on trainers - from clients’ unrealisitic expectations to judging standards. Choosing to use drugs to achieve an outcome totally unrelated to therapeutic need is CHEATING. It’s ILLEGAL. THERE IS NO GREY AREA ON THIS in my book.
Will ethical trainers who don’t choose easy management methods lose some clients? Probably. But let me ask this – did any of those trainers have the simple balls to tell their clients “your horse is a good horse, with talent, but one that requires some finesse sometimes. If you want him to win and can’t spend more time in the saddle or on training, I’m afraid that drugging him is the only option. This is illegal and can have very serious side effects for your horse, and I won’t do it. If you want to ride with someone else because of that, please understand that your horse’s health may suffer.”?
I admit I may not understand the full financial implications of such a statement. But I own my own business, and I know that I have on more than occassion refused to take on a client with whom I had a personal ethical conflict. It has cost me quite a bit of money, but I can look in the mirror without flinching.
I can only hope that the trainers who choose to violate their own personal moral codes - if they are doing so - for financial gain are as comfortable in themselves.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Izabella:
I’m curious, is there any legal med that is given via syringe??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course. Legend, Adequan, Bute, Banamine, Ketophen, Dex, and Robaxin are all legal, and given via syringe in most instances. There are pill, paste, or powder options for some of these, but IV is the most effective and most popular.
Defn of trainer is “responsible for the care of the horse”. If teaching, but not looking adfter the horse, the term is “coach”.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
