THE suspension list

[War_Admiral]

Just a quick update - In response to my Open Letter to David O’Connor posted on Off Course, I received a very nice e-mail from John Long, the new CEO of USEF. (The “Open letter” thread has been updated.)

The D&M issue is a top priority to him.

HE INVITES AND ENCOURAGES US TO PARTICIPATE.

That means… Send e-mails. Write letters. Go to the convention.

In order to get anything off the ground, he has to be sure he has a broad base of support among the membership.

It only takes 5 seconds to send an e-mail.

Let’s get going guys!!!

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Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ise@ssl:
Now let me get this straight. A fine totalling $550 (trainer + owner) for Rainier was levied. It cost the USAE $350 for the lab work. It was posted here that it was contested so we have to assume staff time was expended on not only the original findings but the follow up. So given the cost of personnel, correspondence, etc. - it would probably be safe to assume the FINE didn’t even cover the COST to the USAE.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is an extremely good point, and I’ve never seen it expressed quite so succinctly or clearly. I’ve always felt that the fines were surprisingly low - in many cases less than was paid to show the horse at that competition.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Also - I’d rather see a set MENU of fines for various infractions, i.e. this drug = this fine; # of horses = this increase; #of previous infractions for individuals involved - multiple of “x”. There seems to be too much latitude in the current system and begs the question constantly of prejudice - either negative or positive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually prefer that they have lattitude. IMHO, set algorithms can keep justice from being served - I am OK with having the hearing committee use its discretion based on the facts they have, though I would like more information (“because of prior offenses” “because of the amount in the system” etc) on their rationale when the penalty is published, and as I’ve said before, I think these Notices should be archived.

[Ridin_Fool]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Would said Vet’s wife happen to ride with a certain trainer with the initials TG?!?!?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How ironic, when I saw earlier in the page that a vet was involved, I had the exact same inkling of “who”… to be named later.

I used to live in the geographical area of said vet. Mums the word - I hesitate to even mention initials due to strong flaming nature of the boards… although Wallace is really onto something.

[Flash44]

Right, M O’C, which it is a better idea to take the average of the first 15 out of 20 shows a year. Or just take points from the first 15 out of 20 shows. That way, you can “drop” your 5 lowest scores, and once you’ve gone to 20 shows, you’ve accrued all the points you can submit in a year.

If you add in a designation for lifetime achievement for the horse/rider, people would still be encouraged to continue to show throughout the year, plus all the fun stuff like indoors and finals happens at the end of the year.

This could help remove the pressure to “not miss a show” that some people feel, especially when points are close.

[sesroh]

Lindemann was put on the list for an insurance scam involving an expensive hunter, Charisma, worth $250K which he had killed by “horse hitman” Tommy Burns. He went to trial, pleaded innocent but was found guilty.

Barney Ward was also involved in the killing horses for insurance money and acting as a middleman connecting people (like he did for George Lindemann) to Tommy Burns to help “get rid of their problem horses” and collect insurance. I believe he also got a cut of what Tommy Burns’ was paid to off the poor animals.

I don’t know what Donald Steward did, though. The Barney Ward and George Lindemann suspensions happened a few years ago.

[Weatherford]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:

The fee onlyincludes bute or banamine. The 15$ also includes azium, if the trainer and the owner decide the horse needs a bit of azium. We do 8cc of dex max per week, and for not more than two weeks in a row. Most other people give 5cc a day, which I feel is dangerous… But that is the dose AHSA allows now. Most of ours don’t even get that though because the only ones that need it are the ancient ones that may be a bit stiff on bad footing or when it gets cold.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um… Darker Horse… DEX = AZIUM = NOT FOR “…the only ones that need it are the ancient ones that may be a bit stiff on bad footing or when it gets cold.”

Allergies, yes, lameness, no… And, according to Dr. Allen (David O’C’s vet), if your horse breaks out in hives, you can, with a little more work, give him a good oatmeal bath and clear them up… he had to do that for David’s horse at the Olympics or some HUGE event with the No Meds policy…

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[SBT]

Here’s part of what the 2004 Nursing Drug Handbook says about Prolixin, which is listed as an ANTI-PSYCHOTIC CNS drug, indicated for psychotic disorders:

[I]ACTION: Unknown. A piperazine phenothiazine that probably blocks postsynaptic dopamine in the brain.

ADVERSE REACTIONS: CNS: extrapyramidal reactions, tardive diskinesia, sedation, pseudoparkinsonism, EEG changes, drowsiness, seizures, dizziness, neuroleptic malignant syndrome. CV: orthostatic hypotension, tachycardia, ECG changes. EENT: ocular changes, blurred vision, nasal congestion…
Hematologic: leukopenia, agranulocytosis, eosinophilia, hemolytic anemia, aplastic anemia, thrombocytopenia. Hepatic: cholestatic jaundice.

NURSING CONSIDERATIONS: Monitor patient for tardive dyskinesia, which may occur after prolonged use. It may not appear until months or years later and may disappear spontaneously or persist for life, despite ending drug.

ALERT: Watch for evidence of neuroleptic malignant syndrome (extrapyramidal effects, hyperthermia, autonomic disturbance), which is rare but commonly fatal. It may not be related to length of drug use or type of neuroleptic…

After abrupt withdrawl of long-term therapy, gastritis, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, tremor, feeling of warmth or cold, diaphoresis (sweating), tachycardia, headache, or insomnia may occur.

PATIENT TEACHING: Warn patient to avoid activities that require alertness and good coordination until effects of drug are known. Drowsiness and dizziness usually subside after first few weeks.[/I]

Granted, this is for people and not horses…but, holy crap y’all, I wouldn’t want ANYONE giving this to my horse! It is NOT indicated as a sedative, although it has that effect. It is an anti-psychotic drug used to treat people with psychosic disorders.

No wonder so many people are being suspended for using this.

Okay, so having said I would never want this used on my horse, I then remembered that the Permax I used to treat my mare’s Cushing’s Syndrome is actually a human anti-Parkinsonian drug, most certainly a CNS drug with its own long list of scary human side effects. However, my mare was going to founder and probably DIE if I didn’t give her this drug, so there wasn’t much choice. It doesn’t seem to me that an ordinary, HEALTHY HORSE’S performance at a show is such a live-or-die scenario.

“It’s not getting what you want, it’s wanting what you’ve got.” -Sheryl Crow

[This message was edited by sbt78lw on Nov. 07, 2003 at 10:51 PM.]

[sesroh]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> This is what gets me! A natural born hunter has some pep! Not dead quiet and kick to the jumps. Maybe we should change the name of the division?? Because while I would love to have sesoroh’s new horse (he is a cutie!) at a horseshow there is not enough money in the world to make me ACTUALLY HUNT a horse like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take the same horse out of the show ring, put it in an open field surrounded by umpteen other galloping horses and a pack of hounds and I somehow believe he would perk up. I haven’t hunted him, so this is just a guess. But most of the hunt people will tell you to change your bit before you get out in the field because your horse is going to be stronger.

But at the hunter shows we emphasize the control, way of going and manners, which are essential to be successful and safe in the field. If you are going to have decent control of your horse when he is out galloping in a field with a bunch of other horses, you should have VERY good control of him in a controlled environment.

[LMH]

DMK-wanna carry your report card idea further?

You could implement a code-
a-aced
ltd@x minutes-with a time for how long
pbt-prepared by trainer
pbit-prepared by inept trainer
psiftmc-previously schooled in far too many classes
sewty-shown each week this year
pbmod-prepared by method of dehydration
pbmos-prepared by method of starvation
pbmodas-prepared by method of dehydration and starvation
DaBomb aka the Champion-got to the ring using all the aformentioned methods

I just kill myself sometimes

"I don’t mind where people make ‘whoopie’, so long as they don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses. --Mrs. Patrick Campbell (quote modified for young eyes)

[This message was edited by LMH on Nov. 11, 2003 at 08:41 AM.]

[farfel]

Limo Wrek, what did YOU get suspended for?

[Weatherford]

Well. BH1, you’ve been there, and I am sure you are right. However, the two barns where I spend a LOT of time use NOTHING - and they both start young horses - and yes they work them harder than people in the States (except Foxhunters) and the one barn competes internationally. I have never seen the devices and crap that I saw regularly while growing up (from tack poles to electric wires), nor are there any drugs except from the Vet directly. Mostly because MANY of the drugs can’t be had here - bute alone only comes in powder packets and is prohibitively expensive… When I mentioned giving a horse bute to see if a lameness was inflamation caused or something else, the trainer looked at me in askance!

There HAS been research - and there is ongoing research in Holland re jumpers - that says racehorses started at 2 are more sound in the long run than those who start later. (And, sorry, I can not remember where I read that!) The research in Holland is a controlled study of 200 young horses - two groups, similar breeding - one group started you on the walker learning to do its job - from cavalettis to jumps - the other left turned out til 3 before learning its job - then going slowly.

The reesults of the study are not in, but there should be some comments soon, as the first groups are, I think, showing as 5 yr olds now.

So, I guess I remain wondering WHY our horses are SO unsound - why do they NEED so much “stuff” - and is it perhaps too much of a “good” thing??

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[SydneyS]

Sorry, I just had to let that one out!

Does anyone know if any of the 3 National Affiliate proposals intend to conquer the drug issue?

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Thanks, we can all use these guidelines…

[LimoWrek]

I’mm supprised no one has mentioned my reply to lordhelpus’s question.

I replied that I bet it was magnesium and calcium.

Those are more dangerous than any other drug. I used to use it and the horses would just jump into the jumps if you gave too much.

I’ve also seen people make their horses fall down and die from it. Horrible two drugs. I won’t touch them anymore.

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Limo Wrek.

[_Devon]

My horse is notorious for stealing my diet coke cans and drinking them for me… Lovely to know that I’d be suspended for that…

Devon

[Sparky22]

I agree here with Chanda on the owner’s knowledge base issue.

Also, you all have to remember that many horses are bought as investments by a group. I am pretty sure it is gonna be a long time before a group of non-horsey lawyers know jack about horse medications and what their horse is on.

I know what every horse in our barn gets whether it’s how much hay, water or what medications. But that’s because I work there and it is my job to see over client A’s 22 horses and clients B’s 5 horses. I don’t expect client A to know everything all their horses are getting because they depend on me and the other people who work there (whose job it is to know and care for the horses) to take care of it.

A friend of mine owns a bunch of H/J horses and a handful of racehorses. Does she know jack about racing or what is going on with her horses every single day? No. She bought them for investment purposes and pays for someone else to take care of them. Is she a bad person? Absolutely not, and she is for darn sure a great horsewoman.

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I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MadCat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
Exactly batgirl. Also, if the adult eq class did ever take off and expand into a division (unlikely, IMO, but IF), you could probably time with a stopwatch how quickly the prices would go up on those eq horses that aren’t quite good enough to be top junior finals mounts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But amateurs don’t have a time limit on their division the way juniors do so buying a green horse or one off the track and spending 4 years making it up into their eq mount is no big deal. Even if it takes 5 or 6 years, again no big deal. I thought it was the time factor that made the junior horses worth so much, really.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eek. Four years? Coming from this particular amateur, it would have to be one he** of a horse for me to put four years into it to make it anything. Now, granted, I make up to sell. But if I put four years into a horse I’d have a whole lot of capital invested in it, and once it was made up it would have to be a pretty expensive horse for the next person. I frankly don’t know anyone who has that amount of time and money to put into one ‘prospect’ horse. It’s much more likely to change hands a few times and increase in price with each change.
The junior horses are worth so much because there is such a demand for the good ones. If the amateur eq was popular, there would be a demand for eq horses for them as well.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[sesroh]

Would said Vet’s wife happen to ride with a certain trainer with the initials TG?!?!?!

[Court]

While on the subject where is George Lindemann Jr. these days? Not still in the horse world is he? I have heard about BW and PV but not him!

Courtney

[Rocky]

WOW…this issue has certainly become emotionally super charged…

Is there anyone posting here who believes that the current system of D&M rules and the current disciplinary system works for the best interests of the horses?

Let’s try to head this subject away from personal attacks and owner/trainer bashing…

My new barn mantra…MYOB MYOB