THE suspension list

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lauriep:
Flash, Your Perfectness, when you have a mega bucks client that owns 6 of the 10 horses you have on the road, and wants to buy more, and he/she tells you that her 3’ adult hunter “pulls too much,” and doesn’t need to add LTD to his daily routine, well, it isn’t hard to understand the dilemma some of these trainers find themselves in. The client doesn’t say “Drug my horse or else”, but the trainer may feel pressured nevertheless. But in your perfect world, I’m sure that would never happen.

In my REAL world, it does.

Laurie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does, in my world as well. Every minute of every working day, there are temptations (illegal and unethical) that, should I succumb to them, I would earn more money as well as praise from my superiors. AND, the probability that I would get caught is very low. But I don’t engage in these practices simply because they are illegal and unethical.

Oh, and BTW, I’m not perfect, I had Elvis’ love child when I was 12.

[Peggy]

After thinking about this, IMHO requiring injections to be given by a vet, or specifically the show vet, is a concept not ready for prime time at HJ shows. Yes, it’s done for the duration at CCIs (et al.) and CDIs. If you consider the number of USEF shows in a year and the number of horses at some of them it’s just too much to organize. The average HJ show is way more populated and busy than the average event or dressage show.

Also, given my trainer’s experience with the show vet at a CDI (horse appeared to be colicking, trainer wanted to scratch horse so he could give it appropriate meds, show vet would not let him do this) I’m not sure I’m ready to hand off my horse to every “official” vet at any show.

Agree with lauriep – probably best to deal with the situation by increased testing and punitive measures for the violators.

[Flash44]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog:
Flash, I don’t think THAT is what makes you odd

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that plus some.

[Dana]

Portia, you should have hollered at me. Generally, I’m not THAT tied up with PP that I can’t stop and chat with a friend! LOL

Friends don’t let friends ride junk!

[Lord_Helpus]

I just came across an old issue of “Hunter & Sport Horse” from 2001. In it was an article by Jeff Ayers on “How to Warm Up YOur Hunter for the Show RIng”.

The article was not bad. But I spent most of the time reading it and shaking my head. He talked about how to prepare a hot horse for the ring. But he forgot to talk about his pharmecological preparation…

And in between the first page of the article and the second is a pull out called Supplements Simplified. Todd Minicus and Oh Star are pictured on the front of this 12 page booklet. On the cover it says “See Todd’s SmartPak on P. 11”. I went to P. 11 and I saw nothing about tranquilizers…

So much for irony… And so much for me ever thinking about the people who are being set down without putting a mental asterix by their names. I figure that getting caught for drugging a horse is like getting a speeding ticket. Yes, you might have only gotten one ticket, but it sure doesn’t mean that you only exceeded the speed limit on one occasion. You were just lucky until you got caught.

Scary to think of how many “speeders” there are still out there who have not gotten caught yet.

[Janet]

Well, to play Devil’s Advocate-
There are legitimate uses for tranquilzers BEFORE the show that don’t fit the rules for the D&M report.

For instance, you might think you need to tranquilize a particular horse to clip out his ears (if it were me, I’d either take the time to desensitize the horse, or show with fuzzy ears, but that is me. I can’t really say that wanting to tranquilize for clipping ears is a big evil).

Not therepeutic, so you can’t file a D&M report. You have to rely on guidelines from the vet about how far in advance you should tranquilze and clip, so it is “out of the system” by the time you get to the show.

Unbeknowst to you and the vet, the tests have become more sensitive, and come back with a positive test.

HOWEVER, I don’t think that is the case here.

First, if that were the explanation (credibly)given I doubt the penalties would be so high.

Second, my “Devil’s Advocate” argument applies to a short acting tranquilizer, it wouldn’t apply to a long acting tranquilizer like reserpine.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[War_Admiral]

I liiiike it. Wish they could push it through. Bet it’s going over like a screen door in a submarine though…

Thanks for the update!

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Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karin:
I find it amazing that at the beginning of this thread people were so (righfully) careful not to start rumours or specuate, but, after 40 pages of mindless internet gossip and a few sentences published in a magazine, they suddenly have enough information to not only speculate and judge the people in question, but make inferences regarding their abilities as a trainer and their daily practices as a horseman. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have admired Todd’s riding for many years, and nothing would make me happier than to believe that it was, in fact, an accident. I haven’t read the Notice of Penalty yet.

However, “a few sentences published in a magazine?” The significance of being listed in the NOP is IMHO of similar weight as a conviction in court - it’s not that the innocent are never caught, but it is many steps greater than rumor and hearsay - a committee of his peers weighed the evidence and found him guilty, and I might add, gave him an unusually large fine.

So tell me: if a neighbor of yours had been convicted of giving drugs to neighbor kids, would you NOT make inferences regarding his suitability to babysit for you next weekend?

If we can’t talk about it now, I don’t know when we can. I do not see why it is fair or appropriate to brush this under the rug.

I might add: if it truly was an accident, the open exchange of ‘gossip’ is probably the only way his side of the story would get out, unless he plans to do an interview for a horse publication. He might do his fellow horsemen a service discussing what measures he’s taken in his feeding program to keep such an expensive accident from happening again.

[MHM]

I thought I remembered that when it happened, PV and others were not suspended for life because there was no provision for it in the rules at that time.

Perhaps that loophole has since been closed.

[JulieMontgomery]

Hmmmm, I cannot find the word “malfeasors” in my online Merriam-Webster dictionary.

It only shows the noun “malfeasance”.

Where did you find it, LordHelpus? I have always wondered if the online dictionaries were not as in depth as they might be…it’s a good word, it ought to be in there I think!

I just love words…!

“He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of his devotion.”
Author Unknown…

[Snowbird]

Isn’t it really sad that this dialog is happening. Isn’t it really sad that so many know it’s true and we stand by in the sport we love without defending the horse we love from people who would so abuse them.

How then is it possible that so many are opposed to the slaughter law.If you really want to save the horses then don’t look the other way and don’t perpetuate the evil.

To make them addicts and then make them withdraw cold turkey so they are depressed is a depraved and perverted way to becomne rich or even what you think is an important person. Shame on everyone who wins with medicated horses.

Why is everyone sitting around and waiting for someone else to get the job done?

Battle Scarred Veteran

[Bailey]

how do you get suspended? just doing bad things? but what kind of bad things?

“Just because something is a little banged up doesen’t mean you throw it away” -Tom Smith

[woudn_tYOUliketoknow]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Samantha Jones:
And Findeight…

… Do you REALLY think the europeans don’t use medication? Where do you thin the BNT on this side of the ocean GET the meds that don’t test?

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Let’s Roll<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don’t know who you are but you are 100% accurate…hehe.

[Molly99]

Before flaming all the trainers, please ask you self the following question:

Where did they get this drug from and isn’t it possible that there are other parties involved that the trainers have trusted?

All is not what has been posted here on this thread. It is not a bunch of trainers just deciding to give their horses some drug. I suggest that everyone wait until all the facts are published before slamming professionals who may simply have trusted another professional’s advice on what to give a horses that was showing “X” signs.

[stick_pony]

SESROH – Did u get my PT reply?

I’m down with OPH!

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

Sandstone, I’m not trying to make it sound like you did say that. But your statement, that said "trainers were told this wouldn’t test, when it actually would. " Does sound as if they are trying to do something and get away with it.

There are posters on this board, who are just as upset with that list as you are.

[OAK]

Janet
Thank you for claifying the rule. That is greatly appreciated.

C. Boylen
I was really speaking of the ONE Day shows, I know the big shows do comply with the rule. I also realize it is for everyone’s safety to have sharp boxes.

[WWCountry]

I believe that said “Vet” has hopped an airplane to Europe to escape the heat. He’s got a rich wife, so he’ll be just fine.

[jumpsalot]

SSS-
What about the errant dog running into the ring under your loping working hunter. Is he allowed to hop & shake his head at that? I do not think that is a break in communication.
What about the hunter who just jumped out of his skin over the 4 to a 2 and is proud of himself, shakes his head in a mock buck to show pleasure at doing his job well? I had a judge hunt me down after that ride to tell me he was glad to see a Regular Working hunter that was enjoying his job. That was at an AA show & we did beat the top horse in the country that day- twice- under those circumstances above.

Sorry to go on, but ALL minor imperfections are NOT due to lack of training or communication.

[buryinghill1]

Hey all you old farts. Who remembers THIS horse? He’s been on “the list” FOREVER!
JOE COOL
HAMILTON, MARCIA 01/12/76 -
Big grey hunter from Greenwich, CT. Anybody remember who trained him?