THE suspension list

It’s against the rules! That’s just the way it is. It’s the same with testing for steriods in football. They started testing because they wanted a level playing field. So when it’s found out that some BNT is drugging their horses you find out no one has been given a fair chance. To be honest I’m not the least bit suprised. You can either be honest, hard working and maybe get to the top or take the easy way up to the top. Like I said though, it’s against the rules!

~Lisa~
My Homepage:
http://hometown.aol.com/classsecret78/myhomepage/index.html
My webshots:
http://community.webshots.com/user/lisa_78

Considering that pentobarbital is not only a prescription drug, but a DEA schedule II narcotic, I’d like to see criminal prosecution for this sort of abuse.
Wonder if a little time in the federal pen would make more of an impression than missing Wellington…

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

Jumpinghigh83 - I don’t think everything went up at HITS this year. Betcha the officials’ fees didnt !!

The new issue of Equestrian arrived in the mailbox today… I do not have it in front of me but I do remember Todd and Don are in it, as is Robert Dover. Todd’s suspension is for Roller Coaster testing positive for Reserpine (which another of his non-showing horses is on - from everything I have heard and as far as I am concerned this was a mistake). Robert’s is for Ranier testing positive for pentoxifline (excuse my spelling) which is a drug anyone with a foundered horse may have heard of. I do not remember what drug Don’s was for…

If the car that now contains the magazine shows back up in the near future I’ll post that too…


…such are the horses on which gods and heroes ride.

Stoneybrooke Farm

The most effective way to get rid of this type of behavior would be for the owners of the horse to refuse to allow this to happen to their horses. And very few owners are making a living off show hunters, so what difference does it make to them whether they win or lose?

ELIZABETH… Your little “recipe” for the AA’s was the practiced method for may BNT’S and BNT “wannabe’s” the past couple of years.
I am not sure who said said it earlier in this thread, but the “Hit Parade” is growing! We should see at least a dozen more names soon.

It’s only the beginning… Now we all may be on an even playing field… for alittle while anyway.

Ain’t life grand…

So really, when IS Bute acceptable? I know there is a form to fill out when you are showing a horse on a small amount of Bute. But in what circumstances can that be justified?

If my mare needs to be on one gram or two grams of Bute, I shouldn’t be showing her. But some do…what sort of pain/injuries justify showing on Bute? And don’t people feel weird turning in the drug form?

>^.,.^<

www.imom.org
Helping those who cannot afford veterinary care for their pets…

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arnika:
C. Boylen,
I don’t know you personally, and I don’t have anything against you personally. I can only go by what you have posted here. If I have misinterpreted these words then I apologize most sincerely. I’m not sure I have.
I keep hearing excuses for using illegal drugs to cheat at horse shows so trainers can keep their clients happy. I realize this will probably go on until the end of time, human nature being what it is. This doesn’t mean that I have to ignore it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’m sorry that you have to take advantage of the fact that I post under my own name and from my own experience to take a cheap shot at my horse. I’m seriously trying not to lose my temper, and I enjoy debates when they’re carried on the level.
So, I will continue to defend my points without resorting to making aspersions on your background. You cannot force people to become educated. Clients will reach whatever level of education they strive for. Some are perfectly happy being ignorant. There are lots of ignorant people in the world. You can’t teach all of them, and some of them are off actively abusing their horses unknowingly, far from the A circuit. This IS a service industry, and some people WILL do things they otherwise would not do, to keep their clients happy.
I concern myself with the welfare of my own horses, and I don’t make statements about other people without written documentation of their crimes. I certainly don’t presume to know any of the situations surrounding trainers and owners that I am not close to, and I don’t consider myself well informed enough about their situations to make decisions for them.
I’m not sure how you can argue with anything I’ve said in other posts, as none of it has been opinion, merely a statement of fact about the way things are done, and some explanation for why people would behave in that manner.
I’m not sure what you think you’re accomplishing in your posts, and I’m certainly not accomplishing anything by replying to them, so I’ll end here until you come up with something well thought out and factual to discuss.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lstrsk8rbngs:
prolixion is not the biggest drug that these trainers were using. it’s way more desturbing than that. phenobarbittal yeah that’s right the “pink juice” that is giving to put down horses is also being used to show them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As someone who has also given Phenobarb to 2 different doggies with seizures, I KNOW there is a test for it (and there has been for many decades).

WHY wouldn’t USA Eq have been testing for this for years? I certainly do not doubt you. What I am concerned about is the drug testing system.

I realize how expensive it is to test for drugs. But I don’t see why MORE drugs can’t be added to the list and the list rotated, so that not every horse gets tested for everything on the list.

As long as exhibitors believe that X drug is not tested for, they will use it. But if there are 30 drugs on the testing list, and 15 - 20 of the drugs are tested in each sample taken, the risk of using ANY of the 30 drugs might rise high enough that the use of these drugs plummets.

It is the FEAR that a drug will show up in a test that is the deterrant. If the USA Eq has tested for ace for decades and finds few horses testing positive for it, that is because trainers fear that they will be caught.

The trick is to keep 'em guessing WHICH drugs will be tested for.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Let’s let this thing die until specifics are posted after due process has taken it’s course <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What bugs me is that it’s been stated on this thread (and rumored among the horse community in my area) that hearings have already taken place, and people have already been set down – I don’t understand why USAE hasn’t posted an updated suspension list already – It appears that due process has already taken its course – Are they waiting until after the Palm Beach Nationals/USAE magazine publishing deadline/some other significant date to start the suspensions? –

We’re at the end of a competition season – This is the time of year when ponies that are ‘sadly outgrown’ or horses whose riders are off to college are often sold – If you were shopping for your child right now wouldn’t you want to know if the prospects you’re looking at were drugged last season?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ridin’ Fool:
After reading all this, I have two very random thoughts:

  1. So, drug testing is random, correct? This summer, I started to think they were following me from show to show. I was tested at 3 out of 5 shows - I was in the ribbons at each show but at various levels (from 1st to 6th). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I worked for the AHSA at a few shows as a drug tester. I was told by the vet that was leading the team that collected the urine (he collected the blood if need be) to choose randomly from those that pinned in the class.

We were expected to wait until the class pinned, pick an individual from the top three pins and the last place person. Two of us would wait…one would pick from the top three and the other would walk away with the sixth placer.

So, random yes, although we were expected to choose from those that pinned. We never knew who was going to be in the top three or in any of the placings for that matter so it was random outside of the fact that we’d choose from those placings.

"I NOW INFORM YOU THAT YOU ARE TOO FAR FROM REALITY."
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, Iraqi Minister of Information

"Life ain't certain...ride your best horse first."  Unknown

They owe money to the horse show, not the USEf (in most cases - I suppose there could be unpaid fines on there as well), so the horse show management is free to pursue any channel they like to get their money.

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

jep - The trips you’re speaking of are the ones that are the trouble. The ultra-slow horse whose rider rides backwards to the jumps is just WRONG. We shouldn’t be rewarding this kind of riding!

Consistent riding is key to the hunters, but not to the detriment of correct riding. It should be the tie-breaker, not the only thing the judge considers.

Marion, how can medicating a horse in one’s care with a substance that you know is illegal, even if one has been told it won’t test, ok???

B***h in training

Today’s trainer really has to be knowledgeable about everything that goes into a horse’s system and why.

Perhaps a small barn can get away with relying on a vet all the time…but the average show barn is way too big with too many horses, unless they keep a vet on the payroll full time.

Nothing wrong with helping the owners with the cost of routine injections either. Good trainers work with the vets to coordinate care…others just flat out cheat.

We need to root out the cheaters without penalizing the many who don’t.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.

RADIO TALK YOU ARE SO RIGHT… WE ALL KNEW IT THEN, AND WE ALL KNOW IT NOW AS WELL…

Unfortunately, there will always be a “chemist” amongst us!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MareOne:
Re: the show manager who got suspended

If someone is suspended, doesn’t that prevent them from going on to the showgrounds, even as a spectator? So this person certainly would not be able to judge or course design, because then he’d be on the grounds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Depends on how they word the penalty.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Two Toofs:

To me, it’s not “hard stuff”, it’s just the way it is and I guess because that’s how I’ve been brought up, it’s no big deal.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since equipoise is an anabolic steroid (with all the connotations of THAT particular substance!), we will probably have to agree to disagree on which is worse - a performance enhancing, liver destroying steroid or glorified ibuprofin.

Poltroon, per my FEI comment about pentox being allowed, remember that drugs are allowed to be given to the animal in the course of its existance, it is just that the withdrawal time is longer to make sure that the drug has no effect on the horse (performance enhancing or otherwise). But pentox is one of those long acting drugs, so who knows what the story is on how you test for it? I mean if I administer it for 6 weeks, it is my understanding that it lasts for 6 months.

As for that FEI testing, yea, a herd of folks got busted for using a commonly used European herbal that was even labeled “FEI approved”. Not that it was approved, but that obviously whatever testing process they use over there didn’t turn it up. Meanwhile here it tested as reserpine, reserpine-like or not reserpine, depending on the lab in question. So I would say there is a leetle bit of discrepancy between Europe and the US!

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

BenRidin’s link is to the official USA Eq/USEF suspension list, as of today. Those are suspensions currently in effect, not prospective suspensions. For some forms of offenses, the Federation hearing committee will set a date for the suspension period to begin at some point in the future, to allow the parties involved to plan for it and allow clients and others who are not suspended themselves but effected by it to make other arrangements.

A person can be suspended for any variety of rules violations. Not paying a show bill or fees owed to the Federation is an automatic suspension in effect until the amounts owed are payed. Otherwise, suspensions come only after opportunity for a hearing and decision by the hearing committee. Short of horse killing or clear abuse, D&M violations are probably the most scandalous way to get suspended.

[This message was edited by Portia on Nov. 04, 2003 at 12:02 PM.]

I didnt really feel like looking through 30+ pages of this so Ill just ask it out front. Is there a recent Suspension list??