THE suspension list

[Lord_Helpus]

Another sad way of avoiding loss of show time is to have the assistant trainer take the fall. Remember the Devon massacre? Karen Healey took the fall for her boss, who is as Big a BNT as they come.

At least she had a nice nest egg to go out to California and set up her own business when she came off suspension…

Will the horses which tested positive be named? Will they be banned from showing also? How many juniors and ammies will be looking for new horses come January (she asks, hopefully )?

Interestly enough, I know a trainer who has always done Ocala, who, this year is doing WEF since he was able to rent a lovely facility adjacent to the showgrounds. The owner of the facility is not doing WEF this year.

Hmmmm… I wonder if there could be a connection here…

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Yep, I used it a grand total of 2 times. It was in 2001, the pollen was so bad you could see it blowing through the air. The rest of the time I use a stocking or vicks, or just dealt with a few head tosses and didn’t get a ribbon.

[This message was edited by Flash44 on Dec. 31, 2003 at 12:00 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey now, using medication to change the horses behavior is, I believe, illegial. Dex could have just forced your horse into being quiet and therefore stopped his head from tossing. Or it could have made him more sound so he didn’t hurt and didn’t toss his head. Ever think of that?

I’m not trying to be rude here either, I know this post sounds abraisive. But it is not supposed to be.

Why D’ya Do It?

[ESG]

Thanks, LEPE - I was wondering the same thing. Some of those suspensions on the list above date back to 1974 - hardly a hot topic, and definitely not worth going through the whole list to find out who’s been naughty and who’s been naughtier.

[Flash44]

If I’m paying $500 a month or more in board, and day care at a show is upwards of $100 a day, I expect my horse is getting the right feed tub, and the person feeding it is not under the influence of a controlled substance.

I’d immediately fire a trainer that shows up on the job under the influence.

[JustJump]

<<See I have a problem with this. Although I agree on the increment system being in need of vast improvement, I do NOT think the B and C shows are less of a culprit to showing/soundness of horses. Here in Zone 2 land you have a mind set of “qualify” for Zone 2 finals and take the top 15 shows of res/champ
etc, and I know of trainers and barns that show back to back divisions at one dayers all year long. That can be over 100 times in the ring at 3ft. I don’t think this is better than the 4-5 days shows where the classes are spread out over a few days.>>

Averaging points to qualify for year end and zone finals would take care of this problem. Only the most desperate trainers and owners will continue to campaign in the quest for a better average (or to prevent someone else from earning one).

And, the race to the Zone finals really got out of hand when, because of the structure of the increment system, it became obvious that the Zone finals were now the ONLY indoor experience obtainable for those who would not be going on the road to the AAA’s. So instead of going to the B’s and even the C’s to earn points in the Junior and AO Hunters, riders now just didn’t move up out of the Children’s or Adults. So now the horses and ponies that DO qualify for the Zones are first of all just plain run off their legs in the process (and that’s just greed on the part of owners and trainers, IMHO). Mostly, it’s because the Zone Finals are the only real “goal” that they have to shoot for (and getting there provides a good living for a lot of trainers.) Indeed, many of the qualifiers are never the same again, after going through that process.

[Pocket_Pony]

But some have old dates even back to '95. And it says the date with a - and not another date following.

“Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success” - Reiner Klimke

[Flash44]

Anyone who spends ANY amount of money on anything “deserves” to know exactly what they are getting for their money. If the trainer does not want to answer questions about how the money is being spent, the owner is free to go somewhere more open about expenses.

If you are competing on the rated level and you do not have care, custody and control of the horse, you should make sure management knows your horse should not be given any medications or supplements without your consent unless it is an emergency medical situation.

[Dana]

I’m still not sure that it’s such a good idea to hold the suspension so that they are set down during the same show that the infraction occurred last year. What’s the reason behind not setting them down immediately after their hearing, appeals, etc. are over. So, they messed up at WEF and now they can’t show the rest of the summer and Indoors. What’s wrong with that?

Friends don’t let friends ride junk!

[EStieg12]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arnika:
Every time I think of Rox Dene now, instead of marveling at such a wonderful mare, I’ll have to wonder were her acomplishments real or performance-enhanced? No one will ever know. Her owner states that the owners may know but don’t care. If that is her attitude then what stops her trainer from doing anything necessary to win?QUOTE]

THAT was unnecessary.

---

Member of the “Baby Greenie Support Group” and major advocate of the Green Arm Band

[Won2Keep]

Well said, C. Boylen. I would rather have a horse given a cc of ace than bled. I would rather have Valerian Root be legal than for horses to be LTD. There will be more harmful ways to get around the system as long as the “walking dead” horse wins.

This calls for major reform. If you think about all the old schoolmasters that get help and what will happen to them if they are no longer able to show…What will the cost be of an A Show quality, quiet horse who wins? Well out of my price range because they are few and far between.

People just don’t have the time to ride for hours every night anymore and land for turnout is getting more and more scarce. Or we drive further and further to get to these barns from where we work so we cut down on riding time. You almost have to show continously to keep the value of the horse high and qualify for the big shows. All these issues tie together. It is not just a drug issue, but how the horse show world can keep up with the changing priorities of the people who support it.

[LMH]

question: if you placed you kid in a day care center, would you question the treatment of him/her while there?

What if you kid was just plain irritating the teacher that day-would it be ok to medicate them to keep 'em quiet?

I mean, heck I am not a licensed child care provider, but I might ask a question or two.

"I don’t mind where people make ‘whoopie’, so long as they don’t do it in the street and frighten the horses. --Mrs. Patrick Campbell (quote modified for young eyes)

[War_Admiral]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I certainly would not expect or want my vet to make a treatment plan based on what is “legal for showing” in the eyes of the USEF.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmm… Then I fully expect to eventually see somebody’s name on a suspension list at a theatre or drive-in near you.

Seriously folks - you GOTTA check with your vet if you even think a horse s/he is treating might be ready to show. If I’ve had a vet call for a minor injury (to which my TB is preternaturally prone) and I’m a month out from a rated show, you bet I’m going to ask the vet what s/he is using and how far out that will test. It’s only prudent nowadays.

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Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse.

[Kerby]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Risey27:
interesting to see that Barney Ward has at least 6horses on the list if not more…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats cause Barney Ward is on the list I would assume.

What makes people go on this list (for you USA people) I could assume, its to do with drugs, breaking rules, bills unpaid etc. But I was just curious without assuming.

[Madison]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
LEP, I’m pointing out that you can’t assume the riders in the preadults are beginner-intermidate riders. Some are very skilled riders who, for various reasons, are riding their green horses themselves. The pre adult is at 2’6, the pregreens at 3’. Many are looking for mileage at a low height before moving the horse into the AAs, or pregreens if they are that good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true Flash - mileage on the way up was exactly my reason for taking my horse in the Pre-Adults

<a href="http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav">http://community.webshots.com/user/madisonav</a>

[srs]

So in the past few weeks, there have been some conversations on the board about a huge list of suspensions being released with a number of big name trainers on the list. Does anyone know when this list is coming out? I heard that the said trainers will be suspended during Florida, is this true?

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BAB:
From a steward to all those wondering - no medication report has to be filled out for Dex now. Just obey the amounts allowed and you won’t get in trouble. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks BAB, I was pretty sure, but I hate making definite statements without proof

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
By the way, anyone who has taken MSM for joint problems (like me for my Lyme Dx) will attest to the fact that it tastes TERRIBLE (as bad as chemo, AAMOF) and ruins the taste of everything else you eat… I would only assume that it would impact a horse the same way…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno, I take 1000mg per day and it has no taste and no impact on me, and I am terribly sensitive to DMSO and many vitamin type pills. So maybe it depends on the person (or horse) and the form they are taking…

But when it comes to the issue of injecting joints, I have no problem with that. Other than the risk of going in the joint more often than necessary, the research has shown it extends the life of the joint, makes the horse more comfortable and able to do his job and that the class of steroids injected in the joint do NOT destroy the quality of the joint. So if your horse needs 4X a year injections and IV Legend/Adequan doesn’t get the job done, then as far as I am concerned, you are doing far more service to your horse than waiting until he is ouchy and the quality of joint has already deteriorated to thin/bloody. As far as I am concerened, if you have the financial means to do this, your horse is probably better off than the horse at a local show who just got 2 grams of bute 5 hours before his class…

As for Darker Horse, I think y’all are wasting your breath. He knows he is rolling the dice, he knows what the stuff does, and he is willing to give it quite regularly and even try to justify it. Ain’t nobody going to change his mind.

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[DMK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
It might be a challenge to prove that it was deliberately induced to change performance, as opposed to a genuine illness, but it might be possible to test for it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Yup, we can identify that these substances exist in the body, but proving that they were administered… a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
The fact is the rule says anywhere on the show grounds. They have when been here to take samples frequently taken my school horses that were not even entered in the show. But, any horse on my farm is fair game.

They have been here and taken samples from horses on the trailers not entered in the show. Why should Florida be different than Snowbird?

Battle Scarred Veteran<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can they be tested if they are not paying a non showing fee and an AHSA fee? I think that is a waste of AHSA money. Anyway, who would expect evey single school horse to test clean. I woudn’t.

It’s all over now baby blue…

[bitsy]

BenRidin - That list is not current. I know of some that are suspended for entire Fl starting after NY and they are not reflected in that list. I don’t know where you would get that list though. I’m sure some people here that ride w/ those people suspended could probably say.