THE suspension list

[RockinHorse]

I have tried to stay out of this but…

I am dissapointed that some people appear to be justifying the use of drugs and lunging to death because that is what it takes to win, everybody does it, it is the judges fault, etc. If someone is going to make the choice to do something that is both harmful to the horse and illegal, they should at least take sponsibility for their actions and stop blaming everybody else.

Winning also seems to have become a end unto itself. Yes, I like to win as much (maybe more )than the next person but I also enjoy the journey that gets me there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> While I appreciate and admire your perseverance with your horse, I’m not sure you understand what an unusual situation you’re presenting. If I owned your horse I would, after seven years, have $105,000 in him in board alone. Not including training, lesson, or show fees. That, is not logical. I seriously doubt I, or anyone else in a position similar to mine, would find that situation satisfactory if the horse was not producing some results for the majority of that time. The horse would have been, in my case, donated or sold on the cheap, and in many other cases, made productive by any means possible. I’m not claiming it’s right, but thats the way that it works, and I doubt it is going to change. It’s really a matter of economics.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay so if the horse has to produce results from the get go, then it probably does need artifical short cuts. It takes time to develop a nice horse and that seems to be one of the problems.

My horse, after quite a bit of training goes quietly with out lunging and usually does not play in the corners. He is now ready to do the first year greens. If we do the greens, he will probably be one of the oldest horses in the class (unless FLASH44 wants to show with me since I am guessing our horses are about the same age )because I could not get him that quiet by age 5 or 6 .

~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~

[Rocky]

or better yet time to bring out the giant can of “Trolls be Gone”…

My new barn mantra…MYOB MYOB

[OAK]

That’s what I am saying that he is only suspended from managing shows. He is allowed on the grounds. So he still can be a Judge or Course Designer. It doesn’t seem right to me.

[Won2Keep]

It is a very grey area…

I can’t go into too much detail because several parties post here, but to paraphase…
Mother wants her child to do 3’6" at a big show. Child was sucessful year before at the 3’. Trainer says horse can’t do 3’6" at this big show and get down the lines. Mother insists! Child will not do 3’ again. Trainer says horse cannot do it. Mother insists and becomes angry. Trainer relents. Horse does 3’6" without a lot of sucess but not ugly.

I want to ask that mother how do you think the horse got there? Do you think the hand of God swooped down and made the horse feel better for that show so he could get down the lines?

And you are questioning drugging practices at the barn? Perhaps you did not think of the welfare of the horse either.

It is not black and white and never will be.

[findeight]

OH, I believe it all right…but not everybody is on the pharmaceutical bandwagon.

How stupid is it to get caught cheating…more then once? And how many times can you claim the same excuse???

Slap in the face of many Pros who DON’T.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
Why would it be legal if it could hurt horses as much as you guys are making it out. The article itself said prolonged dex exposure of a few months is a bad thing. How can once a week, for not more than two weeks in a row, for not more than two weeks out of a month really be that bad?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is legal because it is a good medication for a once-in-a-while case of hives or insect bites.

You now must report it, and they are tightening down on it (total allowable dose), because it has become apparent to the USEF vets that people are giving it regularly to showing horses - far more regularly than these horses can be afflicted with hives - and, they have evidence and experience that is showing that horses are being hurt by the side effects of this drug.

I have, in fact, shown with it once - my horse had a spider bite on her knee two days before a show. The vet prescribed dex, as she frequently does for this sort of reaction, and we were aggressive with icing, etc so we could still show. The swelling was gone by the departure time, and she was sound all along, so we went. [As it turned out, the mare was so fresh and goofy for the show that we probably should’ve stayed home. ]

However, as time goes by, I’ve come to realize that giving Dex is more of a “we must do something” event in most cases than a “this will really help the horse” event. The bumps are unsightly, but rarely seem to be causing all that much local discomfort, and so now I don’t medicate at all (just icepacks/cold hosing) unless she truly seems uncomfortable.

So what is happening here is that people are taking a good useful drug - when used occasionally - and abusing it past how it is intended to be used for the horse’s benefit.

[lms]

I agree Don Stewart owns a heck of a lot of horses.

Though I don’t think it was necessarily right, I’m glad for his clients and Maclay medal finalists that they didn’t penalize them for his penalty (as far as the metropolitan national went).

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”

[SBT]

I am stunned by the number of people in my general area who are suspended. One in particular, along with her business name and several of her horses, was on an earlier list but seems to have been removed now. Guess she paid her bills.

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

[fernie_fox]

Samantha Jones,

25 years ago in UK.we were getting all sorts of

“Stuff”,from just south of US.They were waay ahead of UK on non-testing drugs.

fernie fox
“I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound”.

[jumpsalot]

oh my- I AM a thread killer!

[the_eleven]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lms:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by your mom:
this thread is annoying
QUOTE]

Then why take the time to reply?

I agree with C.Boylen Suspensions were not a big deal until we found out that some BIG name folks are going to be suspended shortly. Perhaps this will teach others a lesson.

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
it needed to be said

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

[GatoGordo]

From one of my neurobio textbooks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Reserpine [is] an alkaloid derived from the roots of Rauwolfia serpentina (snake root). . .By the 1940’s, Indian physicians had recognized two distinctive properties of Rauwolfia, a hypotensive effect and a sedating effect. . .chlorpromazine [Does the name Thorazine ring a bell?] had just been introduced and psychiatrists were excited about the prospect of finding other new agents for treating psychotic patients. But the hypotensive action of reserpine proved to be a troublesome side effect, and, furthermore, the drug was soon recognized to be a less effective antipsychotic agent than chlorpromazine and other phenothiazines. Reserpine was therefore relegated to the prescription list of antihypertensive agents, although even here it has been largely supplanted by new agents.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> By preventing the storage of newly formed transmitter molecules, vesicular uptake inhibitors [such as reserpine] initially stimulate catecholamine [norepinephrine and dopamine] and 5-HT [serotonin] release. This is soon follwed by a profound transmitter depletion, which, in the case of reserpine, lasts for several days. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are two points to the above quotations:

1. In response to findeight’s recent post: Since reserpine was originally derived from substances in ‘snake root’, it is quite possible that supplement manufacturers, not being under the strict FDA rules that apply to what we choose to call ‘drugs’ (as opposed to supplements, nutraceuticals, herbal remedies, whatever you want to call them), could put snake root in there and count on most people not knowing that snake root is, in fact, de facto reserpine and could very well show up in a test. I personally think the FDA needs to gain/exercise the ability to control the supplement industry a lot more tightly than it does now, (not ban, but educate and hold manufacturers accountable for what they put in the pill and on the label) but that’s a whole 'nother discussion.

2. After reading that, I’d want a very good reason to put this stuff into any horse’s system. Weeks of stall rest and rehabilitation for a very tightly wound TB might fall under there to avoid injury to the horse or any whom he might tap-dance upon; cheating in the show ring, certainly not; and very few other circumstances come to mind that would warrant a long-acting, messy psychotropic drug. JMHO.

There are only two types of eventers out there: Those who have fallen in the water jump and those that will. – subk
Founding Member, Bird Nerd Clique; Eventing Yahoo In Training; formerly known as BostonGold

[Flash44]

I think a lot of those mutual fund managers were also thinking about things from a “business perspective” during the past few years!!!

There is an unbelievable lack of morals in society today. And it’s not limited to residents of the inner city. The white collar crime that is motivated by money and greed astounds me. People just do not know right from wrong, or they just don’t care.

What is even more frightening is that people will cheat and abuse animals for a ribbon! How bad is the soul of a person who has such a pathetic motive?

[radio_talk_Aefvue_Fa]

srs, been told that end of Jan. or beginning of February will have more suspensions…

JakesDad, don’t quite understand what you’re saying, sorry. Do you mean if the vet has told said BNT that it will be out of the horses system in 10 days, and it still shows up in 60, whats happening? I would think with all the information the hearing committee has been given, this would mean someone other than the vet is giving the horse the medication.

[War_Admiral]

well said, pwynn and poltroon.

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sorry about lack of caps. i’m typing one-handed.

[Ghazzu]

Findeight, it seems to me that what this thread has mprphed into is a general discussion on the subject of abusive/illegal/unethical practices, not innuendo.

Of course, could be that I’m so far out of the loop that I’m missing the veiled references or something, but I see no reason why we shouldn’t discuss things, why we have to name specific trainers/horses/drugs/owners in order to hash over whether something is acceptable practice or no.

No one is being forced to read any of this, after all. (with the possible exception of the mods.)

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[werty]

As far as a trainer wanting to delay testing, couldn’t that be to ensure that, for example, the mandatory 12 hours had passed since administering 2 grams of bute? Or would they be able to discern when it was given versus when the horse showed?

[War_Admiral]

Good article - thanks for the link.

Hmmmm - in-barn video monitoring at shows?? I liiiiiike that.

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Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse.

[Exitpoint]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>OK- so I just realised that this was a longer post than I anticipated, but I had to say, I know my horse has a longer life than he would have had & I hope a better one–because of being gelded.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hear you, and I understand what you are saying. Examples like yours are why I was hesitant to bring up castration in the context of discussing vets, as there are certainly examples where the animal benefits. Then again, I can’t think of any procedure that is ALWAYS bad for the animal - even euthanasia is often the best choice in terms of happiness and physical pain.

Don’t want to start a random thread digression, so my apologies if my example gets discussion going in another direction.

Regards,

D. Spink

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hengststation Exitpoint
http://www.stallions.net
. . . Integrative Stallion Management.

[Flash44]

Cheating is cheating, whether it is done at the local level or at the national level, and it is still wrong even if you don’t get caught. The prize lists for most local shows state that the show is being run in accordance with the rules and regulations of the USAEq, even if the show is not recognized and the testers are not there.

The people who are going to do anything possible to win will continue to do so. It’s a shame our recreational sport has to be policed like this, and it’s a shame that the ones who suffer the most from our actions can’t tell their side of the story.