THE suspension list

[DMK]

Molly - your observations are not without merit. I doubt changing the judging standard will eliminate everyone from cheating, and I doubt few people are that naive. But that doesn’t mean the current standard is the BEST standard.

Look at it this way, if you have teachers that are incapable of teaching and students who cheat because they weren’t taught properly, would you just punish the students for cheating, or do you think it might be a better plan to get better teachers as well?

“I used to care, but things have changed…” Bob Dylan

[Dinah-do]

If trainers have such little respect for the terms and conditions of their suspensions is it a surprise that they have squat respect for the rules of D&M Comm. or the welfare of the horses and their clients??? I am sure that a trainer that snubs the rules of their suspensions wil be back on the list again. Leopards dont change their spots!!!

[Janet]

The rule book says
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Article 703. Penalties.

1. If found guilty, the accused will be subject to such penalty as the Hearing Committee may
   determine, including but not limited to:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
   This is followed by varius kinds of penalty, including suspension from even being on the show grounds, and suspension from a specific set of roles. While suspension from being a show manager, while permitting course designer, etc., is not called out explicitly, it clearly falls with the “not limited to” phrase.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[Two_Toofs]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
They cut straight to the hard stuff, eh Toofs?

Given a choice, I think I would stick with bute!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me, it’s not “hard stuff”, it’s just the way it is and I guess because that’s how I’ve been brought up, it’s no big deal. Some jurisdictions do allow bute & banamine (which I personally don’t agree with), but that’s about the extent besides Lasix for the most part. I can’t fathom a winner NOT being tested - my Lord, there would be mutiny and anarchy in the streets if that ever happened on the track! I’ve always assumed that it must be pretty lax, actually, in comparison to non-race disciplines because we are the ones with the reputation for horses that are all drugged up. That’s what I get for assuming.

Heck, the Simpson’s racehorse episode even had a horse named “Chock Full O’ Drugs” running against Furious D. (An episode that was beyond hilarious and I love telling our riders to “Do good, or else I’ll hose you down and put ya in a Hefty!”)

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

[Weatherford]

Hmmm - I LIKE the idea of jamming the signal, SGray!! Great idea!

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[J_Turner]

Is Darren Dlin originally from New England? Why do I know that name? 6 months is a long vacation. I really do wish they’d list the infraction on the website. It wouldn’t be hard. It’s generally a stock paragraph with names/dates/drugs or rule broken. Cut and paste.

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“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V

[clearound]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MHM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clearound:

I don’t think the suspensions are effecting WEF this year. From what I have seen and heard, it will the biggest WEF ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The biggest WEF ever?!?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

meaning more horses, more riders, more trainers than in previous years.

[Flash44]

You know, if one can’t keep your horse sound and happy and well behaved without drugs, maybe one doesn’t belong around horses.

If one can’t manage the barn so that horses don’t “accidentally” ingest drugs, one doesn’t belong managing a barn.

If a horse needs X+Y+Z drugs to “be comfortable” in the show ring and “be competitive at that level” in the show ring, maybe the horse does not belong there.

And I’m not surprised to see some names on the list. I routinely get beaten by some horses I frequently compete against, but I know that some of those owners don’t hesitate to stick their horses with whatever they feel they need to have the horse win. If they can’t compete fair and square, they don’t deserve the privledge to work and be around these horses that so generously and whole heartedly do our bidding.

[CAH]

Two Toofs - I too have been reading this thread and comparing it to the TB race world. In our state, you can race on bute or banimine - preracing is I think 24 hours out and MUST be done by the track vet. We also test the winner and another ramdom pick by the stewards (although some states just test the winner). No questions asked - you go to the detention barn and you don’t leave until your horse donates urine and blood. Vets are also held to track standards (I noticed the fine to the track vet on your link) and I remember many years ago a track vet that was suspended from practicing at a major track for having a “substance” from Canada in his possession - in his office on track grounds. Never used it - just had it in the building. Trainers who make their living at the track know that without the license, they are ruled off - and most of the ones are very, very, very careful. The excuse “it was an accident” is not spoken around the backstretch.

[lms]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flashy Gray:
After 34 pages of tedious and often non-fact based speculation on this thread I am glad that I could finally make a contribution. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the funny thing about that is that it is so tedious, yet you obviously have been checking to see the latest developments!!

“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”

[LimoWrek]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord Helpus:
Apropos of nothing more than a lot of people on this thread are drug savvy…

NAME THIS DRUG: At one show the barn’s rider was somehow incapacitated and so the BNT got another very nice rider to ride the barn’s green and open horses.

After 3 horses failed to take off at a jump (they never lifted their front legs at all – just tried to canter straight through the jump) and said catchrider took his third rather scary tumble of the day, he had a rather loud discussion with said BNT where people could overhear (we didn’t even need to put glasses against the wall ). Bottom line was that he respectfully and regretfully found he was unable to continue on as the catchrider for the BNT… (or words to that effect, but I prefer my paraphrase…)

OK — it seemed very clear to all of us at the time that these horses were on something that blocked signals from the brain from getting through to the legs. And it was truly scary to see it happen several times.

What drug (or class of drugs) would have this effect?

Part II for extra credit: Where was the barn’s rider the day all this was going on? Do you suppose that he/she had an inkling that these horses were not safe to ride?

PS: There is nothing you or I can do if we see this happen (we were told). The testers were not on the grounds, and management has no authority to have the show vet take blood… Even if the testers had been on the grounds, they would not sit up at the ring long enough to notice three crashes over the length of a day. And so they would not have caught it either.

One exhibitor cannot “tattle” on others— the testers will not test a horse on someone’s hearsay or recommendation (I can understand this because then the problem of one competitor drugging the horse(s) of another and then asking the testers to test those horses would be a real one.)

It is hard to watch something like this happen and not be able to do anything about it. But that is the way the rules are written…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My guess is too much magnesium… It’s not testable.

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Limo Wrek.

[Jumphigh83]

Well said Chanda.
Maybe some of the “great trainers” out there who are so morally outraged by someone doing the logical thing(TQing) with a horse on layup could offer their services to those who are not capable(like Todd for instance…) of convincing a horse on stall rest not to hurt themselves. What a good idea for a charitable public service in this holiday time of giving!

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com

Lead, follow, or get out of the way…

[horsepop]

laurie
My suggestion would be not to show week in and week out. I know the trainers for the most part use legit methods of preparing a horse whether through lunging or legal meds and time duration. But many of the horses are being compaigned so hard that some trainers feel they can push the envelope a little more by giving something and then hope the odds are with them that the testers aren’t going to “RANDOMLY” pick them.
I agree that this has been going on forever but just like smoking and drinking, drugging a horse for the sake of better performance isn’t accepted as readily as it once was.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Also, for the horses competing under FEI rules, I do not believe that there is any prohibition on joint injections, Legend, Adequan, etc., and the myriad of other similar “treatments.” So, for anyone saying “well, look at all of the GP (dressage and jumper) horses competing “drug-free” at the upper levels,” don’t kid yourself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Someone posted the FEI drug rules recently. IIRC, they can have a bunch of things OUTSIDE the competition (just like USEF). But once the competition starts (usually the Tuesday) the only things they can have are
antibiotics administered by the official vet
IV drip for dehydration (usually only relevant for the evening horses) administered by the official vet.

Alternative treatments (e.g., acupucture, chiropractic, massage, magnets) are permitted, but have to be approved and documented.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[Flash44]

Good point, Blinky. Which brings us back to making those that test positive pay for their own testing for X length of time…

[Janeway]

Muffin Man, do you live on Drury Lane?

[Bumpkin]

Beezer, that was an excellent post!!!

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[CBoylen]

I’m pretty sure it was VET singular, even though it’s cases plural. I’m not so sure that said vet is NOT being held responsible in some form. In any case, I doubt he’s going to be very popular henceforth.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Janet,
I never said it was reserpine. That was not the drug I was refering too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I only know what is published, and the published suspensions to date have been for reserpine- except for Robert Dover. Will you tell me what the latest suspensions were for, or will you make me wait until it is published?

Bu that still begs the question. If they were giving “it” (whatever “it” is)for colic, why didn’t they file a D&M report?

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[War_Admiral]

Well, you know, in the end, it’s the shrug-your-shoulders/not-my-problem attitude that really will bring PETA down on the H/J industry. Don’t say you weren’t warned.

I’m at work right now & don’t really have time to address this in detail - but just for openers as to what I would suggest - personally, I’d have no problem if the entire winter circuit ended TOMORROW. I remember back before there was one. And you know what? Horses actually got a three-month layoff to relax and just be horses. They stayed sounder longer, both physically and mentally - meaning your “investment” (if you choose to view your horse in those terms, which I do not) was protected and was more valuable for a longer period of time. That same layoff allowed the trainers to (God forbid) actually train - just imagine having 3 uninterrupted months to work a horse out of the bad habits it has acquired over the course of the show season.

It may not have earned a bunch of trainers a nice paid vacation in Florida, but it was better for the horses.

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“No horse with cart horse blood inside three crosses can stand an extreme test against horses bred for Epsom Downs and the Metairie Course…”
–Marguerite Bayliss, The Bolinvars