THE suspension list

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Mixing up feed buckets? Clearly label each horse’s feed tub. Or mix up one bucket at a time. It’s not rocket science.

Part of management is anticipating mistakes and taking precautions to prevent them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding Flash - I didn’t do it. Mistakes are made, it happens! You seem to think everything is so concrete - I wish it were as easy as that!


I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats

Snowbird, we do not always agree. But here I say well said.

The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.

I’ve been reading this thread with some interest but the following quote is what prompted me to post:

Darker Horse says…

"Someone suggested steroids to fix his appetite. But I know the horse well enough to know for some reason he just didn’t like the food anymore, and I will not give a horse steroids. It makes the NUTTY. LOL. "

DH- what exactly do you think dex is? You’ve repeatedly said you give your horse dex- it’s time to get a clue- dex is short for dexamethasone which is a corticosteriod (yes I said steriod).
OK, back to reading with interest.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LH:
Frankly, I’ve seen more use of behavior-altering meds (Ace, etc.) at unrated shows (no drug regulations or testing) than I’ve ever heard of at sanctioned shows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I TOTALLY agree. I have made the same observation. The no name trainers don’t get caught because the unrated assocs may not have or enforce any rules… or if they do no one notices because they don’t know who they are. I don’t think drugging is more prevelant among BNTs than anyone else, its just that people know who they are and notice.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own -Grateful Dead

Reserpine is used therapeutically for injured horses on stall rest. People on this board have used it with success; you might try a search.

I didn’t read Chanda’s posts to say it was advisable or even okay to use performance enhancing drugs. Rather, I read her to mean that it goes on and it’s naive to think otherwise.

While I can understand that many owners put their trust in their trainers and have no clue that something fishy was going on, I’m not ready to absolve them of all responsibility.

I am another one of those “absentee owners.” I am not a horsewoman in any way. Not because I don’t want to be, but because right now, with my limited time, my first priority is learning to ride.

That being said, if my horse gets any medication or has any health or soundness issues, you bet I expect to be fully informed. I may not know enough to really understand the issues, but that’s when I ask questions or do independent research. Yes, my trainer is the one who makes most of the health and training decisions about my horse. But I’m always fully informed, and I make damn sure I know what every charge is on my vet bill!

It really doesn’t take that much time to talk to your vet and get an explanation of what’s on the bill and what it does. Unless your trainer is footing the bill for the drugging (do trainers foot the bill for anything? I haven’t experienced that, lol!), I find it hard to believe a client wouldn’t at least have some suspicion something fishy is going on.

It does make me sad that the only alternatives seem to be lunging to death or drugging. I’d like to find out what those alternatives may be.

Maybe not showing as much? Maybe changing the judging standards so that fresh horses aren’t penalized? I’m not talking about allowing unruly behavior. But I’ve never understood why amatures’ horses can’t show some exhuberance while on course.

“Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.” – Thomas A. Edison

Holy poo-- 86 pages???


Member of the “Baby Greenie Support Group” and major advocate of the Green Arm Band
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I’m going to post this on my farrier thread

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“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
Did anyone bring up this subject yet?
(from http://www.USET.org)
“…Debbie McDonald Named Champion of 2003 Dressage World Cup Final…
Debbie McDonald of Hailey, ID, has become the first U.S. rider to hold the title of Dressage World Cup Champion. McDonald, who originally placed second to German rider Ulla Salzgeber in the 2003 World Cup Dressage Final in Gothenburg, Sweden last March riding Mrs. Peggy C. Thomas’s Brentina, became the 2003 World Cup champion when Salzgeber was disqualified from the championship by the FEI (International Equestrian Federation) Judicial Committee after it determined that her horse, Rusty 47, had been given Testoterone Propionate. …”

This sorta tops the 60 on the upcoming USAE list

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I’ve given some of my horses steroids before. Usually its when they come in and are skinny. But it makes them like crazy for a few weeks. LOL.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by buryinghill1:
Drug testing at racetracks is not comparable to horse shows.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I’ve read in this thread, that is an UNDERstatement.

Regardless of the “whys”, the end result is that your average racehorse apparently has no more (and in all likelyhood, LESS) chemistry running through it’s system than your average show horse. Yet racehorses are so stereotyped as being filled to the gills with drugs, that they are said to be in need of “detox” when leaving the track, when actually we are held to much higher standards than some sectors of the showing world.

Two Toofs
(formerly - but still - NDANO)

Edited because I used the exact opposite word that I wanted to. DOH.

[This message was edited by Two Toofs on Dec. 17, 2003 at 12:21 PM.]

I am tired of the “feeding mistake” excuse. The stuff that these trainers were suspended for is not crushed up and put in the horse’s feed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:

personally, I’d have no problem if the entire winter circuit ended TOMORROW. I remember back before there was one. And you know what? Horses actually got a three-month layoff to relax and just be horses. They stayed sounder longer, both physically and mentally - meaning your “investment” (if you choose to view your horse in those terms, which I do not) was protected and was more valuable for a longer period of time. That same layoff allowed the trainers to (God forbid) actually train - just imagine having 3 uninterrupted months to work a horse out of the bad habits it has acquired over the course of the show season.

It may not have earned a bunch of trainers a nice paid vacation in Florida, but it was better for the horses.
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Too bad there’s no icon for cheering wildly…

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

poltroon, if the scenario you just described was changd to insert hunter jumper names, I swear everyone and their brother would be saying that a) the vet took the fall for the rider or b) wasn’t this just another fine example of how ignorant h/j riders are, that they don’t even know what their horses are given, medication wise.

Me? I’m inclined to believe it was a big whoops, and that is even in the light of the rather dubious record certain countries have when it comes to steroids and olympic athletes!

It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others…

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Weatherford:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:

The fee onlyincludes bute or banamine. The 15$ also includes azium, if the trainer and the owner decide the horse needs a bit of azium. We do 8cc of dex max per week, and for not more than two weeks in a row. Most other people give 5cc a day, which I feel is dangerous… But that is the dose AHSA allows now. Most of ours don’t even get that though because the only ones that need it are the ancient ones that may be a bit stiff on bad footing or when it gets cold.

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Um… Darker Horse… DEX = AZIUM = NOT FOR “…the only ones that need it are the ancient ones that may be a bit stiff on bad footing or when it gets cold.

Allergies, yes, lameness, no… And, according to Dr. Allen (David O’C’s vet), if your horse breaks out in hives, you can, with a little more work, give him a good oatmeal bath and clear them up… he had to do that for David’s horse at the Olympics or some HUGE event with the No Meds policy…

_ It’s OUT! _ Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping _ co-authored by MOI!!! _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Acatually yes, it is a very strong anti-inflammitory medication. Think of it as related to cortizone.

Edited to add a link to this website that talks about dex and its anti-inflam properties: http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_library_info.html?product=30e072e9-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&showComp=1

Why D’ya Do It?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
There is an inherent difference between ths for whom horses are “what they chose to spend thier money on” and those for whom horses are “the way they make their living”.

Spending 8 years “getting it” is fine for the first, but a bad businesws decision for the second.

Doesn’t do any good to say the pros “should” make bad buisness decisions. If they did they wouldn’t stay pros.

I wish they did the judging like Dressage.
The Bumpkinette is finding that even if she hasn’t won a class in Dressage, she finds out so much from the scribe sheets, and has looked at showing in a whole new POSITIVE light.

BUT within the constraints of “good business decisions” we need to provide a “level playing field” and protect the horses from the use of drugs with long term negative side effects.

I agree that the REAL solution is to change the judging criteria so that there is nothing to be gained by tranquilizing, etc. a horse.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

“Proud Member Of The I Love Dublin, Starman Babies, Mini Horse, Sunnieflax and Horse Boxes Cliques”
“Remember: You’re A Customer In A Service Industry.”

I found this on a vet website

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> IN ANIMALS
Common side effects include, colic, gastrointestinal upset, mild diarrhea that may last for days, and sweating over the back and hind legs. Signs of sedation include depression, droopy eyes, and a dropped penis.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Courtney

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
Those kind of things happen. He’ll survive. I imagine his students will show under a different barn name while still riding with him…but that is just a guess based on what I know other people with banned trainers do

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If that is true, then what is the point of the suspension? Is there any way for USAE to truly enforce it?

My buckets ARE “clearly labeled” and yet sometimes there are mix ups…Must be nice to be so virtuous that one NEVER makes a mistake but takes glee in others doing so.

Betsy
www.threewindsfarmny.com

Lead, follow, or get out of the way…

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog87:
I find it sad that you have to medicate your horse to make him happy, DH. I also find it very sad that putting all the horses on dex at your barn is not seen as something to question.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/angelgregory87
We are now the Knights Who Say ‘Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv’

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Why would it be legal if it could hurt horses as much as you guys are making it out. The article itself said prolonged dex exposure of a few months is a bad thing. How can once a week, for not more than two weeks in a row, for not more than two weeks out of a month really be that bad?

Why D’ya Do It?

I would like to understand how the European shows work – I’ve only been to 2 small jumper schooling shows in England which did not appear to operate under FEI rules –

What level is the competition? – Is there an equivalent of Level 1 jumpers that would run under FEI rules? – I know they don’t have hunters, but do they have any entry level (2’6") classes similar to what we might call pre-childrens/adults or novice? – I don’t have a problem with giving NSAIDs to an older pony carting a kid around in short stirrup as long as the pony is still happy in his work – How would running shows under FEI rules impact the entry level riders? –