THE suspension list

[Snowbird]

Ultimately the owner or rider is responsible to be aware of the care that their horses receive. If the barn is so inefficient and has people of that ilk and carelessness as staff, then in the end the responsible party is also the owner/rider.

I find it a little pathetic that only at the hunter shows did we have dollar bills so contaminated with cocaine that horses tested positive. I find it pathetic that only at our shows are there grooms who are so high on cocaine that they mix up buckets of feed.

I find the twinkie defense and “the devil made me do it”, or “I didn’t read the label” all poor excuses for people who are responsible for the care of innocent horses.

I find it irresponsible that these people can pass the horses on to other people so they do not lose time out from competition. I find it intolerable that so many people are willing to look the other way when they see these violations. I think silence with knowledge should also be penalized.

What I find really reprehensible is the acclaim for the unrecognized circuits because those do not have to abide by suspensions, they don’t have to abide by any of the rules they don’t like and can choose to select the ones that are comfortable. It certainly explains to me the weird conflict of some very elite who are espousing the cause of the unrecognized and unsanctioned shows.

I find the excuses an admission of guilt and therefore no one is jumping to any conclusions before a finding of guilty.

Battle Scarred Veteran

[BenRidin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chrissy mackris:
i heard todd minikus was suspended as well, for a year, but i didnt see him on the list?

Tipperary
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Supposedly he is being suspended from Jan. to March.

~BenRidin

[buryinghill1]

in a few days this thread could beat the aiden thread for most views
it’s sorta like reading The Enquirer in the check-out line and puttin’ it back

[The_Muffin_Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddlebag:
MHM…you can’t. I didn’t say that you can really know. But some look dull, and others don’t. Hours on the longe line isn’t any better for the horse than drugs…in fact, it it can be worse! And sometimes you can get a clue by seeing who is hopping up and down like an idiot at the back gate…especially if the horse is dull!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it’s the drug free horses that are being longed for hours, how else can they compete against drugged robots???

[wesierobb]

It was quite interesting to read the Hearing results on the Morgan Horse Assoc website. I can’t say I had ever heard of someone being suspended for 20 years…

http://www.pzonearth.com

[mizzwade]

I agree with Chanda - all of these things happen. I have personally been cheated out of thousands of dollars so someone could save their house/farm. Now whether YOU want to accept that these things go on, that’s a different story… But I can personally tell you, when you put people’s livelihoods and homes on the line, you can’t always predict their behavior…

mizzwade

[Jake_s_Dad]

you know i had a horse that loved coca cola …and i thought it was great that he did ,and i thought it would make a great ad. than im told that i could be suspended for giving him a drink of cola…i thought they were pulling my leg …but they were not joking…the suspension list could have a lot of this bs…and the fines will help pay the deficit…5000 times 60 hmmmmmm…snowbird said that they needed a million dollars…well they are working on it …

[CBoylen]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pwynnnorman:
You know what I find hillarious?

I got into a somewhat heated series of comments in another drug thread (the “…compiling the 8 p.m. medication list for 30 horses is a task in itself” thread) and it seems that few of the folks (who at least seem to be on the “other” side–which may be an unfair statement, but I don’t know because I can’t really understand “their” side) have come here…unless I’ve missed something. Have I? I’d like to hear how C. Boylen weighs in on this, for example.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weighs in on what, precisely? I think I’ve contributed to this thread on a fairly consistant basis. If you want my opinion on something in particular that I haven’t addressed, feel free to ask.

http://community.webshots.com/user/anallie

[horselesswonder]

While talking with one’s wallet is great in theory, the unfortunate reality is that sometimes there aren’t many alternatives to trainer x. I’m not sure taking up with a trainer who lacks skill is much better than sticking with a skilled trainer who has a habit of sticking his/her horses. Tough dilemma.

[Ghazzu]

Seems to me that the simplest way to avoid all these “mixed up bucket” tragedies which are apparently so common would be the simple practice of giving oral medications separately from feed.

That way, not only would the wrong feed not be an issue, but one could be certain that a given horse consumed the entire dose of whatever medication it was supposed to be on at the appropriate interval.

And you’ll excuse me if I find the concept of dragging a valuable horse which is not showing from one showground to another while administering tranquilizers to it to be far less than what I would consider optimum management of said animal.

Surely there must be some layup facility with decent enough care to leave the poor beast to rest. I bet there’s even a place with grooms who can manage to give the right feed…

Unashamed member of the Arab clique…just settin’ on the Group W bench.

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Would a non payment thing have an indefinite suspension?? She’s got no ending date. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes. A “non-payment” suspension is “until you pay up”. SO it does not have a defnite end date.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[SBT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MIKES MCS:
Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise_

Off topic, Who is the Jimmy Cruise you are talking about that you attribute this quote?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The late Jimmy Cruise was a Hall of Fame harness driver and trainer. His quote, along with many other gems of wisdom, is printed on the wall at the Hall of Fame. I love going there…it just feels like you are surrounded by the spirit of so many great horsemen.

The full quote actually reads as follows:
“When I find out that a horse has a “big” heart I’ll nurse him along, stick with him. Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person.”

Although there are many other good ones, this one is my favorite.

Heart in a horse is every bit as important as it is in a person. ~Jimmy Cruise

[GotSpots]

I would guess there’s quite a bit more we are missing on this story of the guy bounced for wanting to delay the blood test though: when my horse was tested at an FEI event, they came along with us as we bathed him, unbraided, hosed him off, and wrapped him and then sat watching him for more than an hour. Darn horse still wouldn’t pee, so they pulled blood. The point is that the testers were very nice and let us do all of the normal get-the-horse-put-to-bed things while we were waiting. So it’s not like they were in a tremendous hurry. Hmmm.

[Weatherford]

Nina - I think in many ways, the D&M Vets’ hands are tied - they can make RECOMMENDATIONS, but ultimately, it is the committee and the trustees who make decisions about the drug issues… COnsider the big deal - in cluding full page ads in the COTH when they recommended tightening the rules a few years ago!

If we want them to tighten up, WE (MEMBERS) MUST show our support for it - we can’t just accept the trainers say so as to what will work and won’t work.

Of course, the trainers HATE that, just as they HATE amateurs and non-H/J people on the D&M and HEaring Committees… To quote one BNT, “I am NOT going to sit around a let some amateur or someone who doesn’t even know ANYTHING about MY JOB tell me how to or not to medicate my horses”!!

I LIKE your idea of a seminar for the guilty - and think you should write up a proposal for the July meeting and send it on to D&M as well as the Veterinary Committee!

It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[Pocket_Pony]

Oh, this is just so depressing.

I was out to dinner with some girlfriends over the weekend, one of whom is still active in ‘A’ shows. She mentioned two local BNTs that have been set down for the next few months. Our other friend said “everyone does it, it is just these two who got caught”. It makes me sick that trainers…TRAINERS, you know - people who are supposed to TRAIN HORSES to be athletes, who are supposed to care for them are the very people who drug their horses.

I don’t know - I’m an idealist, I suppose.

One of the trainers who got set down has a HUGE barn, way more clients than he can handle - no wonder he takes shortcuts, I suppose. There is no way on earth that he can have the time to train as many horses as he has. I’ve seen the local BNTs who sit on their favorite horses for training - maybe 20 minutes (for hunters). The rest of the horses get passed off to an assistant or another client to ride. When one focuses on quantity over quality, I would imagine that’s when drugs come into play.

I’m not very well spoken about this topic because there are so many thoughts running through my head.

It is just a sad state of affairs for the horses, and the riders who truly want to become horsemen/women and actually learn something and do the right thing.

“Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success” - Reiner Klimke

[Karin1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I just came across an old issue of “Hunter & Sport Horse” from 2001. In it was an article by Jeff Ayers on “How to Warm Up YOur Hunter for the Show RIng”.

The article was not bad. But I spent most of the time reading it and shaking my head. He talked about how to prepare a hot horse for the ring. But he forgot to talk about his pharmecological preparation…

And in between the first page of the article and the second is a pull out called Supplements Simplified. Todd Minicus and Oh Star are pictured on the front of this 12 page booklet. On the cover it says “See Todd’s SmartPak on P. 11”. I went to P. 11 and I saw nothing about tranquilizers…

So much for irony… And so much for me ever thinking about the people who are being set down without putting a mental asterix by their names. I figure that getting caught for drugging a horse is like getting a speeding ticket. Yes, you might have only gotten one ticket, but it sure doesn’t mean that you only exceeded the speed limit on one occasion. You were just lucky until you got caught.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I swore I wouldn’t get involved in this thread until I saw this post, and others following it. So, while I have nothing to say about the actual list or drugs or whatever, I have to say this:

I find it amazing that at the beginning of this thread people were so (righfully) careful not to start rumours or specuate, but, after 40 pages of mindless internet gossip and a few sentences published in a magazine, they suddenly have enough information to not only speculate and judge the people in question, but make inferences regarding their abilities as a trainer and their daily practices as a horseman.

[elizabeth]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
Lameness --> drugs --> why? --> bad shoeing --> what is good shoeing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

J. Turner, I’m not the brightest bulb in the box! Thanks for not getting annoyed that I asked that.

Back to your shoe question, Buster was sound in exactly those shoes. The vets at Dupont clinic in Leesburg prescribed them. However, years later I learned that as a long-term fix, they are not optimal for exactly the reason JH83 described. Better to let the heel itself grow out to compensate in the wedged shoe does. Yet if you are using the wedged shoe, you won’t get the heel growth you otherwise would. It’s catch 22, compounded b/c if you take your horse out of the wedged shoe to get the growth, your horse might well be lame.

Since Buster has been nerved, our main goal has been to get heel growth and expansion before the nerve(s) grows back (if it ever does). Meaning, we could take Buster out of the shoes you are using and encourage the heel growth since we can carve the “lame” part of the catch-22 situation above out. Not the optimal way to do it, but it is what it is.

[Ash]

Do you have to get tested at the exact moment you are asked? Or can you wait until after you are finished showing and or untacking your horse? I was tested at Culpeper and they waited for my horse to get a bath. (actually I think they told us to get him comfortable first) They did however follow him to the wash area and waited with him while he was bathed.

---

“I’m not going to have reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president.”
– Hilary Clinton

[pwynnnorman]

Giddy-up, I think I agree with you–and am kinda pleased to see the “progess” that this discussion seems to have made. I skipped from page 20 to 23, and while on 20 I was going to say that I didn’t think that the reason horses are drugged is to meet impossible judging standards (not in hunters), but rather to meet impossibly poor riding demands. I really wonder how many 3’6"+ horses are drugged. In the professional divisions and the A/O’s, the riding gets the results (at least, so I think, in my current idealistic state). It’s those lower fences and weekend warriors that need more and more artificial assistance these days, methinks.

Meanwhile, Budman said: “BNT’s aren’t drugging or longeing these horses so their clients won’t fall off. They are doing it to take away that little extra spunk that makes them swish their tails or kick out in the corners, etc.”

I disagree with you. The better riders can feel those things coming and head them off–or just shrug and ride through them and take the loss. I do think it’s loose riders that demand dead horses. I’d bet that if you did a study, you’d find that when you move out of the loose-rider divisions, you’d find fewer and fewer LTD and drugged horses.

Of course, then there’s the whole artificial show environment: it’s not just the physical talent that the great ones have, it’s the mental ability to ship from hither to yon and then stand around forever in a stall, in the washrack, being braided, etc…and NOT pop a cork every now and then. It’s not jsut a training issue, it’s a management one. (Which kinda contradicts what I say earlier, but, well so what.)

Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html

[Blue_Devil]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Medievalist:
Those kind of things happen. He’ll survive. I imagine his students will show under a different barn name while still riding with him…but that is just a guess based on what I know other people with banned trainers do

ummmm yeah. I totally need someone to do these grad school admissions essays for me
http://www.eii.fr/houssaye<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly.

Funny Quotation for July (that week thing was just too hard):
“A horse may be coaxed to drink, but a pencil must be lead.”
~ Stan Laurel