THE suspension list

[Pocket_Pony]

I can’t believe I have stayed out of this conversation for so long. It actually came at a good time, because I was thinking of getting back into hunters again. But reading all of this makes me sick. Who could I trust? I really don’t know. The local BNTs around here expect you to drop at least $40k to get a nice new horse. Even still, I know there are trainers who do any combination of the awful things I’ve read here - drug, bleed, hang the head, LTD. Ugh. I’m glad I decided to forego the hunter world and give eventing a try. I will be able to be “on my own”, so to speak. I board at a barn where my dressage trainer is, and I’ll work with her a couple days per week. Then I’ll trailer out for jumping/x-c a couple days per week. But ultimately, the care of my horse is 100% up to me, and that is the way I like it.

When I WAS with a local BNT, she called the vet out to see Mickey (this was shortly after I first got him). In her opinion, he wasn’t fat enough (TB). The vet gave him Wistrol (sp?). I didn’t know anything about it until I saw my bill. I didn’t even know what Wistrol was and had to call the vet to find out it is a steroid. DISGUSTING. She also put Mickey on a magnesium supplement daily. I didn’t realize until now that it could have such a serious effect. I left her barn because of her control-freak ways. I wasn’t convinced that she knew what was best for my horse (as she always assured her clients).

What was best for Mickey was consistent training, a varied schedule, a chance to go out and gallop every now and then. He bacame a very lovely, nice horse (ok, he’s still sometimes spooky). Proper conditioning, and TIME got his body to look like I know she wanted it to look from the very beginning.

It seems that people want a quick fix. They want the horse to go in and win NOW - they don’t want to have to put the time and effort into MAKING a good horse, so they pharmacalogically produce it (or they abuse it in some way not known to the owners).

Ugh. It just makes me sick. I’m glad I didn’t go back.

“Both rider and horse must enjoy the work. This is the essence of success” - Reiner Klimke

[barnie]

I understand what you mean, Twinkle. You can get a traffic ticket and you are guilty. But there are tickets and there are TICKETS! You can do a rolling stop or you can kill someone driving drunk…VERY different offenses. What if your horse coliced at home. Your trusted vet came and gave meds. You asked how long they would test because you were going to a show soon. Your vet said to wait 10 days, but just to be safe you waited two weeks. Your went to the show. You did not file a med form because there should be no reason for you to. Your horse gets tested and comes up positive for what your vet gave it two weeks ago. Under the rules, you are guilty and are found so at a hearing. You are guilty of “drugging” a horse. But if this was a real story, what do you guys think would be fair? This is what I “think” Twinkle meant. There are a lot of bad people that cheat to win, but there are, OCCASIONALLY,extenuating circumstances…so while guilty IS guilty, sometimes things are not what you might think.

[Flash44]

I’m not an advocate of no meds, although that is how I show my horse.

I’ll quote myself, a tab of bute is totally understandable for an older horse who has many miles under his belt. However, many young horses are routinely being shown with SEVERAL medications as routinely as I put a bridle on my horse to show him.

And I can’t figure out what is going on with a horse that only jumps around a 3’ course that he needs a laundry list of meds to be “comfortable.”

And I’m not sure how putting 7 years of time and effort into a horse is a luxury, I call it paying your dues. Maybe it’s better to get a new horse, go to a show every weekend, make sure he gets his meds so he stays comfy (gee, they have calming side effects?), and then trade him in for a newer one in a few years because he’s so sour, needle shy or broke down he is no longer suitable for my purpose.

[Blinky]

Interesting that some of you trainers do not expect your clients to know everything that their horses receive. As an owner I expect my trainer to inform me of anything my horse gets! The excuse that some of the owners are working professionals is bull. However with the way ethics have turned within large corporations maybe I shouldn’t be surprised. The common response for everyone including the CEO these days is “I didn’t know” because they don’t want to know.

Instead of trainers coming up with new drugs that beat the system maybe they should spend their time lobbying horse show facilities for more turn out paddocks.

[Flash44]

Hey Syd, practice makes perfect…

[tyedyecommando]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BLBGP:
How does one keep track of a suspended horse? If the horse is not world-famous, it seems that a big bad evil suspended person could easily change the name and sell it for a nice chunk of change…?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unless the horse is suspended because of non-bill payment, the horse is unsuspended at sale (since it is getting a nonsuspended owner). Jane Clark bought one of George Lindeman’s dressage horses for Robert Dover to campaign towards the olympics a few years back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
“Cause I’m hella cool, that’s why.”

• Eric Cartman

[JumpTheMoon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Boylen:
There ARE horses out there that are pretty, quiet, jump and move beautifully, without drugs or lunging. Now, sure, there aren’t very many of them. But as long as there is ONE that is out there showing, there will be people trying to reproduce it artificially. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, the ones that are naturally like that are then blamed for being drugged. It’s a vicious circle that never ends…no one is ever happy.

People seem to think that they’re the only ones on horses that haven’t been lunged all morning or drugged and the competition is so unfair wah wah wah. How about measuring success oh how much you improve each show instead of what ribbons you come home with or how you compare to your competition? Because hunters will never change, and if someone is that upset that the competition is “so unfair” then maybe they should be changing disciplines. It’s naive to think that anything will change in the near future. A new drugs will always come out and even if everything else is banned and cheaters will always cheat. It’s time to deal with reality and move on.

CBoylen and lauriep I agree with everying you guys have said, even though you both have said it 10000x better than I ever could have. You guys are awesome!

[jr]

Sorry Sandstone, but I still don’t buy it.

The Trainer is RESPONSIBLE, not the vet. The trainer is supposed to know the rules, and should be working closely with the vet to ensure this is not an issue. Innocent mistakes do occur – but that is NOT the case for the majority of recent suspensions.

Many of the recent suspensions involve MULTIPLE horses in a single trainers care. That must be some careless vet…

[War_Admiral]

Sorry, I don’t think owners should be exonerated on the basis of ignorance. There is such a thing as the exercise of due diligence in choosing a trainer. There is such a thing as responsibility in horse ownership. Moreover, if the owners are that ignorant and the trainers that unscrupulous, then hate to break it to you, but no, I don’t think we DO need them. All they do is perpetuate all the things that are WRONG with this industry.

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“No horse with cart horse blood inside three crosses can stand an extreme test against horses bred for Epsom Downs and the Metairie Course…”
–Marguerite Bayliss, The Bolinvars

[x]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
MAybe they could change the courses so that alertness, adjustability, and good manners were rewarded. The endless in-the-ring 2 outside lines, 2 diagonals all with measured distances only serve to reward the brain dead hunter look. That change would, of course , require resetting courses between classes, and we all know that that is something that would slow down the factory production of back to back classes that is SO interesting to judges and spectators alike…

madeline<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that is the idea between a handy hunter class, which is rarely seen today!

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> For example, maybe I’m naive, but I certainly have never, ever heard of people regularly tranquilizing their horses in dressage or on the first day of an event, even though a calm, obedient horse is of competitive benefit there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They presented the eventing stats at the USEA annual meeting.

300 plus urine samples and 500+ blood samples.
3 “positive” results, two of which were positive but below the threshold for that metabolite. One positive result for which penalties will be given.

Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain

[RockinHorse]

Well said JustJump.

~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~

[DarkerHorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lstrsk8rbngs:
prolixion is not the biggest drug that these trainers were using. it’s way more desturbing than that. phenobarbittal yeah that’s right the “pink juice” that is giving to put down horses is also being used to show them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Phenobarbital is just a barbituate. I doubt they give it to put horses to sleep, but if they do it would stop their hearts…

It is what doctors gave to people before valium. Back in the 60’s. It is like ‘inbetween’ the valium class of drugs (benzos) and Quaaludes.

[poltroon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
Related to Court’s question . . . why are Ranier’s trainer (Robert Dover) and owner (Jane Clark) suspended, but not the person who was actually riding him in the competition?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, neither of these people were suspended. Dover was Censured and fined, as trainer. Clark, as owner, had to pay the customary $50 to the show as an administrative charge for redistributing the prizes.

The trainer is always the responsible party, unless sufficient evidence to the contrary is presented at the hearing. That’s what it means when you sign that space on the entry blank.

Owners and riders are not suspended for drugging, barring evidence that they were the ones who did it. The owners are named because they are obligated to return the prizes.

[Flash44]

Well, I guess drugging all the horses DOES level the playing field.

I’ve put 7 years of riding and training and showing into my horse, and he has reached the point where he is extremely reliable and he does not buck and play in the corners. Why is it OK for someone else to give their horse a DRUG to give him the same appearance I spent 7 years of hard work and thousands of dollars in lessons and showing to achieve? You call that leveling the playing field? I call it taking a whopping big shortcut.

[Release_First]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
Well, if I’m grading an essay or poem that has certain requirements, then, yes, I do break up the scoring into a rubric. Certain percentages apply to particular requirements.

http://community.webshots.com/user/jessicaseamus

But using a rubric you are still not breaking up the poem/essay bit by bit. You are not looking at sentence/line one and giving that a score etc. You use the rubric and give the entire piece scores for the different aspects that you wanted to see in the piece of writing.

Now you could judge a hunter by a rubric and it might work better than a dressage type sheet. You would think about the round at the end of the round and give it a score for different areas and those would be weighted scores and you could come up with a number.

One problem with all of this is the time aspect. Think of how long some of the hunter classes last now. If we added time for the scoring, we would all be there until midnight every show.

“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you are on your horse you can see forever. - Victor Hugo Vidal
Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are. - King Soloman (970-928B.C.)

[MHM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saddlebag:
MHM…you can’t. I didn’t say that you can really know. But some look dull, and others don’t. Hours on the longe line isn’t any better for the horse than drugs…in fact, it it can be worse! And sometimes you can get a clue by seeing who is hopping up and down like an idiot at the back gate…especially if the horse is dull!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don’t think it’s the judge’s responsibility to know, or even guess, which horses were “enhanced” (illegally), or lunged a lot (wrong, but legal), or just naturally quiet. To imply that the judge should make decisions based on that guesswork, rather than just judging the trips in the ring, puts too much onus on the judge to enforce the drug rules, which is not his/her job.

The judge’s job is simply to pin the best trips in the class, regardless of who is at the ingate.

[Lord_Helpus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madeline:
The second contributing factor to this transmogrification is the proliferation of …<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Medeline wins the “Best Use of Four Syllable Words in One Sentence Award”

WELL DONE, Madeline! Your 3’ high gold painted aluminum statuette, with a fake silver nameplate on the bottom will be to you soon.

[Ponyryder]

I used reserpine therapy successfully on one horse for a limited time. It was managed by my vet and she was not showing at the time. The horse was having “emotional” problems stemming from a bad shoeing job (blacksmith burned the horses soles while trying to put on glue ons. He did not have the knowlege or the skill to do so and caused this poor horse much mental trauma. The horse is doing fine now, and happily has a wonderful farrier.

[Sparky22]

Yes, but at least as far as grooms go – they are not actually in the show.

Trainers will make the same decisions whether they are coked up or not.

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I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats