what? phenibaritol (SP) is what we give our corgi to prevent him from having siezures (he’s epileptic 
Carl Knee! A name that brings back memories. My uncle lives right around the corner from where his old place (or his sons) was (now a development). I got my stallion from his son, Jimmy (I think that was his name–this was years and years ago).
If I remember correctly, Carl Knee did get many years of suspension, but reverted to horse racing instead of showing and did well. He stood the stallion “The Very Thing” and eventually (I think) moved to Florida. I thought I heard that he did ultimately get back into horse showing a bit, but he really had to get really OUT of the business (back then). That certainly is in marked contrast to now.
Sportponies Unlimited
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<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PatsyStone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiramit:
I’m trying to think of all the shows (nation-wide) that offer handy hunter classes. What’s the fence height offered and how many entries are in the typical class?
What could be nice is to add a retro division for all the riders who want to ride their more alert horses over fun courses. If that catches on, perhaps that alone could change some of the standars?
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“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right, ok. They have one already: Jumpers.
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Thanks honey, but I’m already familiar with that area as that’s what I show… 
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“Whether you think you can or think you can’t - you are right.” -Henry Ford
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Instead of trainers coming up with new drugs that beat the system maybe they should spend their time lobbying horse show facilities for more turn out paddocks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
sounds like a workable solution to me!
I’m on board with LH’s suggestion. How can we get this proposed to the USEF? I also like the idea of harsher fines/suspension periods, as well as more accountability from the owner.
That being said, I also agree with whoever said that the “cheaters” will probably find other ways to “enhance” their horses’ performances (like withholding water or the Ca/Mg thing.
flshgordon - I want to clarify that my question to you is not meant to be snide in any way, just an inquiry regarding the relative values to you - or any competitor
“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lms:
I’m guessing those folks with only one date are either suspended indefinitely or until they pay a fine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are correct. Most of them only need to pay their unpaid bill or pay a fine. Others hopefully will never get reinstated. There were a lot of people from AZ on the list besides the group from TX.
Two minutes to Glory, hoping the judge isn’t blind.
Well, FWIW, Flash44, I got your point. Some horses just need more time to get trained than others. I also object to the people that bend the rules just to get the horse to the ring. If you don’t have the time to give the horse the hours it needs maybe it’s time to pass it on to someone who does and find one that suits your lifestyle and goals better.
Maybe it won’t be as brilliant as the one that “needs a little help” but at least you would know that your ribbons are earned by you not a chemical in a bottle or three hours on a rope.
Gee, mshunter, I agree with you yet again. Maybe we need to stop meeting like this .
lauriep and DM, while I understand your reasoning, when did playing to the lowest common denominator ever result in a change for the better? It took a lot of guts for Sallie Sexton to stand up and point the finger so many years ago and people like McDevitt and Lengyel, et. al., sacrificed too much for the rest of us to shrug our shoulders and say, “Whatever. They’re gonna cheat anyway so let’s allow them to cheat in a way that we will know that they are cheating”.
IMO, the D&M program has gone too far to throw a major part of it away. I think that the current rules have enough leeway that any servicebly sound horse (both legs AND brain) should be able to get to the ring without additional “help”.
Let’s be realistic here. I can’t think of a trainer who would advertise the fact that the horse is competing on Ace. So, in all likelihood, the search for the undetectable drug, LTD and RTD will continue while the bottle of now legal Ace sits on the shelf. And the whispers of what program a horse will need will pass down the lane from trainer to trainer (and I use the term, trainer, very loosely here).
And, yeah, I know, DMK, your proposal was more than partly tongue in cheek.
BTW, I know of at least two vets who have told clients to use Prolixin “because it doesn’t test”. Maybe if we don’t get anything else out of this latest episode at least more people will know to go to the D&M committee rather than relying on a vet’s interpretation of the rules.
Of course, you have to wonder about the ethics of the vets who advise their clients that it is okay to try to circumvent the rules 
.
The lure to “get an edge” is so strong in all sports. Testing is a deterrant, for sure. Does it stop everyone? Well, no. For example, the newspaper I work for has a feature called “Police Blotter” on the sports page - the items run the gamet from wife beating to illegal drug use to the use of prohibited substances like steroids. But just think what you would see on the field if there were no prohibited substances.
And what would the sportspage do if they lose some of their content? I mean, you can’t live on just smacked around wives and totaled cars alone VBEG. I can hear the editor saying “Keep the rules” right now.
There aren’t any easy answers to this issue. My solution is to change the judging from error oriented (current state of affairs in hunters - if you make a “mistake” you are out) to performance oriented (think dressage - you can make an error or completely blow a movement and still win if the rest of your test is good to excellent). But I know that isn’t going to happen in my lifetime so I’m not holding my breath.
Nina
Having been intimately involved with the first big bust in the 70’s, I can tell you that:
- the clients don’t know because it happens when they are home sleeping.
- they don’t care. They want a quiet, well behaved horse in the ring, and if it isn’t actually hurting the horse, it is ok.
- the suspended trainers will experience only a little blip on their radar and then will be back in business. Not a one of the 70’s trainers lost out on their businesses. They may have had to miss an important competition (World Championships for 2 that I know of), but they bounced right back.
- “Quieting” horses has been going on longer than any of us has been around. There just weren’t tests for it back then.
I’m not advocating it, or saying it is horrendous. I happen to think that it is a whole lot more sensible than lunging the shit out of them, or the other methods used that are equally as hard on them. And asking a healthy, athletic, well-fed animal to stay quiet when he has to be stall bound for 23 out of 24 hours on the road is just crazy. Something has to give somewhere. So what do you suggest from your lofty towers in the perfect world?
Laurie
I may be wrong, AAHunterJumper, but I distinctly remember reading somewhere that Oh Star had been officially retired to stud due to soundness issues. I know Todd had him at a couple of shows I was at this year, but he wasn’t shown.
Friends don’t let friends ride junk!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by batgirl:
flshgordon, that is just the reality of trainers in this area. With the exception of one, none of them want the ammys to control their horse’s care. The BNT wants control. The only other option would be if you were able to keep horses at home and trailer to lessons and/or shows. The cost of that in this area is astronomical. So I have to board, which I like because I like my barn and the people there. But I just find that trainers around here don’t want to make “horsemen” out of their clients. They want riders, and people who show, and who will hand over the reins…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t know where you live in California but I would keep looking around because I certainly know of excellent trainers in the Los Angeles area who could meet your criteria.
When you are on your horse you can see forever. - Victor Hugo Vidal
Justice will only be achieved when those who are not injured by crime feel as indignant as those who are. - King Soloman (970-928B.C.)
Sinced the names have been posted over there, how about posting them here… That is a long list and my eyes cross trying to scan the whole thing.
Or, at the least, how about posting a link. I know one was posted many, many pages ago. But I do not want to scan this whole thread to find it.
I am not entirely lazy. With all the change of names, I do not know how to find the AHSA site anymore.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The reward for good behavior - is NEVER USING anything that results in a negative test. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>HUh? You hve me confused. Are you try9ng to say “never using a masking agent”? That is the only “anything” I can think of that would result in a negative test.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nix:
I was stunned this past year when walking from the restroom at a nice A show. A pretty successful and well known barn was stabled by us. I walked past to see a groom holding three syringes right out in the open. I made a mental note to myself “thanking” that I didn’t ride against that barn the next day. 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
See, it’s statements like this one that bother me. Why do you assume anything illegal was going on? As you said, it was in the open. You could have seen adequan, legend, bute, banamine, robaxin, ketofen, or dex being administered. All perfectly legal medications. Yet, you choose to make a statement like that for the shock value, and imply that the barn was illegally medicating for an unfair advantage.
Just a thought…perhaps LW’s trainer was suspended and LW is stuck without a trainer.
JMHO of course.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Sparky22
I can understand a legitimate mistake. In that case I wouldn’t leave the barn either. But what we’re talking about here is not the same.
We’re discussing the suspension/fining of 25 of the nations top trainers and riders for deliberately injecting an illegal anti-psychotic into their customer’s horses for the purpose of improving performance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don’t believe that this whole time we were talking about stuff just to calm horses down. I believe we were also talking about pain meds for a while.
So anyways. It depends on the situation. If I had a good relationship with the trainer and I liked everything else about them and their program than I might stick around. There is a lot worse going on - they are not killing horses for insurance money (another topic so don’t even go there with a response).
Like I said it depends on the situation.
And if you all want to get into this thing some more about knowing what is up with your horse think of this: The average client of many of the ‘BNTs’ that you all refer to do not go to the barn every day. Their horse may be down in Palm Beach the whole circuit and they are there Fri-Sun because they have a job and a family at home to tend to. They are paying someone else so that they do not have to worry. Like someone else said, most people on this board are not the average client in this case.
Edited because I can’t spell… AGAIN!
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats
Chrissy-
From what I understand Todd is part of the group soon to be named in the next edition of the Horse Show Mag.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Still, I suspect pentox is legal at FEI levles, just has a longer withdrawal time than 24 hours. Or not. Does anyone know?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
FEI is zero tolerance. Hay, oats, water.
However, I’ve been led to believe that the European labs aren’t quite as sensitive as USA Eq’s labs.
Jeannette – Start that thread – I noticed that new rule in USDF mag too – I hope it’s enforced to keep people from getting around the rules in their private warmup rings – I hope it does not limit the area in which I’m allowed to ride my horse on a show grounds – I manage to show my ‘psycho’ mare, without drugging or LTD, by walking her around the grounds until she settles – We may spend 2 or more days walking around, beginning as far away from activity as possible, before we venture into a warmup area –
Oh, DMK and Janet, I agree…can’t imagine how this would work in reality. (But I understand a lot of his friends are a bit nervous, nonetheless!)
