Well, hey, Sandstone, why don’t you explain it to all of us who don’t have “nice horses”? I’d think that if I did have a “nice horse”, I’d be even more pissed off that some trainer was drugging it!!
“A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!” Shakespeare’s Richard III
I think that Harper Lee’s classsic “To Kill a Mockingbird” sums it up in saying you don’t really know someone until you have walked around in his shoes. I have no idea what really motivated any person at any time who has ever been suspended. I guess all people can do is ride their best stick to their programs and enjoy what they are doing. I know people here have voiced that sure; that is fine, but who wants to be beaten by a “cheater” and I wish I had an answer for that.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucky2day99:
I think it is interesting about how everyone keeps saying… It is only a few bad apples… not all BNT do this etc etc.
I am from NC. On another thread about recommendations for BNT in NC… I can personally name 3 out of the trainers named that I have either personally known to add a little cocktail to their equine’s diet or I know for a fact it has been done via one of their working students.
So… it seems like for an area as small as NC it is interesting that either many are bad apples, the bad apples are infecting the entire bushel, or it is much more than what any of us are willing to admit.
Christina<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was actually thinking this point earlier-it really cracks me up how many “innocents” there are out there-thinking “oh MY trainer would never”…hey, not saying it is everyone but I can guaran-dang-tee you it is more trainers that you think!
When you find yourself on the edge of a cliff, a step backward is progress
Let’s put the FUN back in dysFUNctional!
LMH,
Do you give extra points to the ‘ppit’ horses? 
~~ Does killing time hurt eternity?~~
[poltroon mutters again under her breath why it is that the Notices of Penalty are not published on the website, and archived there, so that “so-and-so was suspended in the past” can be verified and the reason is readily available. Seems more fair to everyone.]
Now THERE’s an administrative “rule” that needs to be changed. Why not propose it? It’s the next-best-thing to a BBB-like way to find out who is notorious and who ain’t.
Think about it. If you are a newbie–or just not connected to the inside track, wouldn’t it be nice to be able to go online and find out who you might want to avoid–and who you, AS A MEMBER OF THE ORGANIZATION, might not want to vote onto (or see appointed on) any committee or board?
One incident, I’m sure, wouldn’t ruin anyone’s reputation–everyone realizes that mistakes can be made–but if your name pops up from a search with two, three…ten, whatever “incidents”!
Poltroon, you’re so right. It just makes SENSE.
Sportponies Unlimited
Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com
http://www.sportponiesunlimited.com/Sportponies_Unlimited_stallions.html
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clearound:
FLASH 44 - As one who just sold a made 3ft horse and purchased a green 3ft horse, I can tell you that a made 3ft horse who can win at the big AA shows is an enormous amount of money. I know of certain horses that are know showing in the A/A that were sold for mid 6 figures. As a result, the pressure on the trainers for these horses to win is in fact tremendous. I am not, and want to repeat that I am not, for one second, condoning the use of illegal drugs.
I also think that the innuendos in many of these postings is disgusting. As I am intimately familar with the names, and the facts, of several that will be on the next suspension list, I can assure you that the number of people who were/will be suspended is probably less that .05 percent of the people who would consider to be BNTs.
Not all BNTs use illicit drugs on their horses!
Why don’t we let this die until everyone has the facts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I’ll repeat - I’m not insinuating BNTs use drugs on horses. All of my posts have been responses to comments made by other posters.
Also, just because someone paid a lot of money for a horse (or company, or whatever) does not guarantee success. And bending/breaking the rules to be successful because there is a lot of money involved is not an excuse. See article on Richard Strong (Strong Financial Corp and Strong Capital Management) in yesterday’s Balto Sun p. 2D (Business section).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Flash 44 - I was not referring to you in the second paragraph of my post. I tried to separate my reply from the remainder of what I said. Guess I did not work that well.
They could have also filled out the member affidavit stating they are a member to avoid paying the nonmeber fee. So the AHSA/USEF just suspended people who were not members of the organization to begin with. 
[This message was edited by Flash44 on Jan. 13, 2004 at 01:32 PM.]
whoops… double post 
You’re getting a little free with the generalizations about the situation. Do you have personal knowledge of what “laundry list of meds” these people are using? And the “several” meds that these young horses are “routinely” on? You must be very close to the situation to know all that. I sure don’t have any idea…
Since none of us know who is on the list and for what, I think you are going WAY too far in your assumptions. If you can provide some facts, then you have something to discuss. If not, this is as far as I am going on that track.
Laurie
I really agree with the attitude expressed by dogchushu (very neat screen name BTW!) of owners asking lots of questions/doing research in selecting a professional, and being more involved in what’s going on with their horses on an on-going basis. This would do so MUCH toward changing things if it was more the norm.
It amazes me especially that some parents do so little of that – just what has been put into the horse that a child is put onto!?!
A horse that is chemically quiet is not all there mentally or physically, I would be just as worried about my kid getting on an out-of-it horse as getting in a car with an impaired driver.
On the soundness end, the problem often boils down to quantity vs quality. Keeping horses sound without a lot of drugs takes a lot of time (not just the turn out, but serious work under saddle for an hour or more, and getting out more than once a day for horses jumping over larger jumps). This is just more than most big stables can offer in the days of 50 or more horses “in training” and shows most every week.
Sad but true.
Linda Allen
Flash44 - I agree with you that medications cannot substitute for sufficient training. Some horses take longer than others to mature and develop, and I think professionals may feel the pressure to medicate (even with legal stuff) when the horse just needs time. For example, I know of trainers who use Depo on geldings that may be a little spooky or looky --I’m not sure how this med works, but perhaps the horse just needs more exposure/mileage.
As for older horses, the drug rules prevent “stacking” of nsaids, so there are limits to what they can get. No horse can really show on a “laundry list” of meds. I remember in the “old” days (yes, like 20+ years ago) a couple of my catch rides (old sale horses) got a huge syringe of Bute – and it was legal at the time!
And there are some horses who cannot be medicated at all for some reason, just like humans who are overly sensitive to an aspirin. I think what we want to promote is the program (training and showing) and medications (including the herbal ones – they are still technically “drugs”) that are in the BEST interest of the horse as an athlete and our teammate.
Having showed and trained with many different programs over the years, I believe that most trainers do have the horses’ best interest at heart. It’s too bad that the questionable conduct by some has forced the need for such stringent regulation. But with the rules in place, I do hope they are enforced.
Yes.
Adequan and Legend are legal and are given via injection.
Other drugs may be legal; it depends on the dosage and the timing.
well there are people who started their suspension on November 1st who arent on that list
???
Tipperary
LordHelpus,
You could even split it further-
The problems with therapeutic drugging (bute, banamine, dex, etc)
The problems with behavior drugging (reserpine, ace, maybe dex again).
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
But the rider, I am given to understand, was an employee of the trainer, and had been competing the horse for some months (you had to qualify as a team to compete in the selection trials where the test was taken).
Not a catch rider?
Flash44 extremely well-said. 
If your horse is so badly behaved or mentally unstable that you have to give it an Anti-psychotic before you can take it into the ring, then I guess I feel really sorry for you. For getting taken by whoever recommended to you that you buy that one in the first place. 
But I suppose it would be too much for the OWNERS to tell the BNT to STOP drugging their horse? Somehow I don’t see myself having that difficulty. Hmmm…maybe it’s because I can win my classes without them? And I actually think of my animals first?
Sorry to be so harsh, however it drives me crazy to have cheaters/frauds/fakes/BNTs/BNRs (call it what you will) ruin the sport that I love so much. To read that this will make NO difference in their training methods/clientele/lifestyle makes me ill.
My last amatuer year was 1981. I decided I wanted to go all out so I went to every show possible show. I went to more shows than anyone else in my barn. I did ten shows.
I also am not sure the horses are less sound. I think often someone will give something in a ‘just in case’ scenario.
A lot of the Ketoprophen is given because people think it makes them quiet.
As far as the hunters go, it still all goes back to the fact that what wins is not always what horses want to be.
I previously mentioned a horse that was put on reserpine therapy to quiet emotional stress due to a traumatic shoeing job. The horse was given a loading dose (similar to glucosamine) it was somethin like 1/2 cc every 3 days for a certain time (can’t remember) and then once a week. She stayed on it for a few months. There was no withdrawal that I noticed. No twitching, sweating, or hanging out on street corners trying to cop a fix.
I have no problem with AN injection - IF the horse NEEDS it.
I have a SERIOUS problem with barns that have all their horses joints injected once a month whether they need it or not!! Just like I have a problem with ANY meds given whether they need them or not.
I see LOTS of jumpers here, jumping big fences on no meds and truly loving their jobs. I watch the GP’s and Nations’ Cups from Europe every week - all run under FEI rules - no meds. The horses look sound and happy. When they aren’t jumping well, often the rider simply pulls up and excuses him/herself.
Do these horses get injected and meds at home? Maybe - but the ones I know here in Ireland don’t, although I am sure others do…
I think we have all become very callous about Meds for ourselves and for our horses! We need to be more careful all the way around.
By the way, anyone who has taken MSM for joint problems (like me for my Lyme Dx) will attest to the fact that it tastes TERRIBLE (as bad as chemo, AAMOF) and ruins the taste of everything else you eat… 
I would only assume that it would impact a horse the same way…
It’s OUT! Linda Allen’s 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
Are all the suspensions now posted? Are there any more people on the hit list? Do you think USEF will bring this up as a real topic of concern in their next issue?
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