And how do you differantiate (I am sure I butchered THAT word 
) between cell phone use and nextel two way? You can make it appear as though you are talking on the phone, when really you are direct connecting!!!
Devilpups
The easier you try to make a horse’s life, the harder they make yours!
JulieMontgomery…and then there is “Forthisia” for forsythia, and “disremembered” for forgot…the hardest one to keep a strait face through was an old trainer from England who had a couple of racehorses for us at Delaware Park who told us he had a horse that was “floundering”, and a week later sadly reported that the horse had indeed “floundered” (for founder)!
Thanks BD - I guess that makes sense - In most cases the Pro/Horse involved are owned by a Client and in those cases any other CLIENT owned horses are not affected. Correct?
So when a Pro OWNS a number of horses - the resulting penalty is multiplied by the number of horses they actually own!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flshgordon:
I know it can’t be CHEAP to blood test each of these horses, but I have bought a horse before and seen the costs for testing of different substances through a vet. It’s not in the $400 to $600 range unless they’re testing for 50-60 different drugs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which of course, they are.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Lastly–I’m astonished by the revelation that USAE/FEI thinks there is only one lab in this entire country that is qualified to run equine drug tests!! I think I’m beginning to understand a bit more now… 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I expect this isn’t a political, but practical matter. The issue of the lab was covered extensively in the whole NGB issue - USET was contending that any lab could do these tests at quite a bit less, and USA Eq was explaining how what their lab does is different. Specifically I also recall a study comparing the procedures and capabilities of the USA Eq labs to the labs used by various racetracks. I imagine any other lab COULD get FEI certification, if they wished, but they probably don’t see that they’d get enough business from it to make it worthwhile. I also seem to recall that there are some other orgs (AQHA??) who contract to use the USA Eq labs.
anyone know what don stewart was suspended for? a friend is looking to go to FL and looking at some of his horses and want to give her a heads up if anything is weird
Arab CliqueAndalusian Clique, Short People/Tall Horse CliqueQuarter Horse CliqueWestphalian Clique*
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> she is an older junior, but lied for six years about her age being younger so that she would have extra junior years
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, now I’ve heard it all. What a nice lesson to teach a kid.
buryinghill1 – Excellent point
Also, for the horses competing under FEI rules, I do not believe that there is any prohibition on joint injections, Legend, Adequan, etc., and the myriad of other similar “treatments.” So, for anyone saying “well, look at all of the GP (dressage and jumper) horses competing “drug-free” at the upper levels,” don’t kid yourself.
The best test of medication effectiveness is the longevity of those horses – some are around for years, others not so long (for many reasons – there are some horses that have an injury that just doesn’t recover to competition level). The trainer of one of the active posters on this board AND this thread has hunters competing at the 3’6" and the 4’ year after year after year, and garnering many HOTY titles. No one could do that by abusing the use of medications – the horse simply could not hold up. But his program must work to be that successful, including the use of supplements, injections, and medications, because his horses are so athletic, so comfortable, and, frankly, look so happy jumping around the big time hunter rings that they win at the biggest shows – a lot.
The true test of time . . .
I honestly believe that it is a horse’s total program which can lead to being a succesful competitor, including supplements, joint injections, a proper fitness program, turn-out, a healthy environment, proper feed and nutrition, interaction with humans and other horses, rest, relaxation, etc. If there is one missing link in the total program, none of it works. I truly believe that.
I don’t think there are too many horses competing at the very top levels for years and years that don’t have a total program.
The key for us humans is finding the appropriate program for each horse, recognizing that every horse is different. Doing that takes a combination of:
intuitive owner
competent veterinary care
good grooming
experienced and intuitive trainer
flexibility and willingness to change or evolve the horse’s program depending on his needs, etc.
Just my two cents for today.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I happen to think that it is a whole lot more sensible than lunging the shit out of them, or the other methods used that are equally as hard on them. And asking a healthy, athletic, well-fed animal to stay quiet when he has to be stall bound for 23 out of 24 hours on the road is just crazy. Something has to give somewhere. So what do you suggest from your lofty towers in the perfect world? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What do I suggest?
Since you ask, I suggest a change in the showing schedule os that the horse doesn’t “have to be stall bound for 23 out of 24 hours on the road” for weeks on end. In fact, I believe this was suggested by a BNT in an issue of PH earlier this year.
But of course, that usually means less money earned by the trainer.
Janet
chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle, and Brain
Ash,
It wasn’t refused to be tested, just refused to be tested at that moment. Wanted to wait until they wanted to have it done.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clearound:
I know of certain horses that are know showing in the A/A that were sold for mid 6 figures. As a result, the pressure on the trainers for these horses to win is in fact tremendous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, maybe the trainer needs to be realistic & explain to the client/rider that if you only ride once a month & are not a “natural” rider, winning isn’t going to come easily for them. The trainer may not want to risk losing a big money client, but when the trainer starts making “questionable” choices to satisfy the client, it’s time to let them go. Horses are not trained monkeys! If Joe Schmo Idiot Rider buys a 6 figure horse yet still runs like mad to the first jump & misses in every class, making the horse quieter (either via drugs or lunging) isn’t going to help. Idiot Joe needs to learn to ride. I hear trainers saying all the time “gotta have a safe one for my adult” or “need one to pack an oldie around”. Yes, I don’t want to see people falling off & getting hurt at shows, but the riders need to realize that those things can happen & then decide if they want to continue riding. The trainer doesn’t need to be making their horses “quiet” enough to cart them around. For the prices some of those adult & children’s hunters go for, they should come without all the catches & special requirements needed to go in the show ring.
(Might I add very interesting thread. It has taken me almost 3 days to get thru it all.)
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MaYbEitsMaybelline:
wow this list must be horribly embaressing for people who truly made a mistake unitentionaly
<<Megan>>
(((((Maybelline))))) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think very few people do something unintentionally to make the list. They usually don't suspend unless it is worth it. Little things get fined.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Cause I'm hella cool, that's why."
- Eric CartmanGood Heavens, what are top of the line cars if not Beamers, Jags, and Mercedes? What are farms that could sell in the millions if not top properties? How many WEF trainers also own homes or farms in Wellington?
Showing horses is expensive, even without training costs. Take two horse to a show and your show bill can be 1000.00. Even if you hopoe to recoup that money at sale time, you have to be able to pay the bill at the time.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joanie’s Pass:
The article is actually about Paul V. wife and the Tyco scandal, but it gives specific detail on Paul V. legal issues at the end.
Just in case anyone was interested.
Wendy is Pauls’ EX-WIFE.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J. Turner:
This seems to be the only industry that does not need to answer to “audits,” so to speak. I am a teacher; I get observed. A lawyer has the bar. A doctor has to take out malpractice insurance. All companies get audited at some point. The horse industry seems to be the only one where the professionals do not need to answer to anyone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Although I think that this discussion is best left to a different topic, you just raised one of my biggest pet peeves - that anyone, whether credentialed or not, can hang out a shingle and declare themselves a horse trainer, rider, etc, without having to answer to any authority. Considering the money and risks to both horse and human one would think that there would be some regulation of this industry. Please people don’t tell me that the USAEQ regulates the industry. Has anyone read the rules recently on hearings and suspensions - no standardized punishments, discretionary suspensions, the hearing committee acts as judge and jury, loopholes galore.
Considering that the person who cuts my hair needed to pass a state test and be licensed, one would think that some governmental body would take a glance at the horse industry.
I am not saying that the person who cuts my hair is not a skilled professional, its just that I think that a bad trainer can do more damage to horse and human than a pair of scissors. Remember, hair can grow back.
Ash-
I’ve had the testers wait for me to bathe my horse before he was tested and I’ve also had them only allow me to untack him before he was tested. I truly believe it depends on the tester. Last time my horse was tested, I had been champion and won a marshall sterling class prior to being snagged to be tested. The tester in that instance allowed my dad to take photos of me and my horse with ribbons and prizes before they proceeded. I thought that was really nice.
I guess it all depends on who you wind up with. I’ll never forget the first time I had a horse tested the drug tester told me what a wonderful experience having your horse tested was. Yeah…whatever!
“Some people need to buy the winners, others make them.”
Arnika - I’m not at all surprised, but I’m also not at all willing to just bend over for them without fighting back HARD.
Just remember y’all - everybody who is not part of the solution is part of the problem.
“No horse with cart horse blood inside three crosses can stand an extreme test against horses bred for Epsom Downs and the Metairie Course…”
–Marguerite Bayliss, The Bolinvars
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darker Horse:
My vet said that even if you are giving a horse 10cc of dex per day most horses will not founder. You will founder some doing this, but 80-90% won’t founder.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, that is good news. In your barn of 20, you can expect no more than 4 to founder.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> He said that 10-20% is a lot, so you don’t want to play with fire with client’s horses, but if you feel your older horse is a bit sore an extra 3cc on the saturday before a big sunday class is fine to administer to your own horse because the chances of them foundering are almost none. He said you won’t founder a big horse with the 8cc per week for 2 weeks max.
And being fit won’t help arthritis or just being old. I know myself that just being fit doesn’t make me feel pain free like I was when I was 5.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, the latest studies in humans do suggest that being fit DOES help arthritis and DOES help ‘just being old’. In general, in human and sports medicine there is a lot more realization that being fit does minimize a lot of otherwise debilitating ailments.
You don’t want to pound them - old horses or old people, or for that matter young horses or young people. For example, with an older horse that I wanted fit but with minimal wear and tear, even an hour of walking a day added to your current workout schedule could be of tremendous benefit with no pounding, especially if it involved some hill climbing. Make it a trail ride, and you’ve got a soothing balm for man AND beast. If you don’t have time, I bet there’s a horse-crazy kid somewhere who’d be thrilled to death to do it for you.
I too wasn’t going to lower myself and get involved but if you recall when you registered you agreed not to make personal attacks…shame on you…
bumoyu
The “determination” letter has to be sent out within 60 days after the hearing has been held.
If you are not willing to post the name and the alledged specifics???
Probably don’t need to post…clients leave for a variety of reasons and they may have nothing to do with whatever it is that is going on…which I really am out of the loop on anyway.
Let’s let this thing die until specifics are posted after due process has taken it’s course.
Bet it will be far more nasty fun then all this innuendo…and probably worse then we can speculate on here.
SO WAIT until the names are named and the wrists publically slapped.
RIP the Suspension List thread with no names or details.
The Horse World. 2 people, 3 opinions. That’s the way it is.
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