This I did not know. Thank you, Janet. Could I ask another question? How much Bute can you legally give, and do you need to file a D&M report?
Apologies for my ignorance!
Well arnika, that depends.
Said client was involved with a trainer who was ‘caught’ giving an illegal substance to a horse. The horse was given medication that was supposed to go to another horse (non-showing, just along for the ride in FL because he can’t breath up north in the winter) when it was mixed up in the feed. The person who fed that day admitted whole-heartedly to her mistake and said trainer got a peanut fine and a slap on the wrist.
Did my friend leave that trainer? No. The substance found was something the trainer never would have had any reason to give that horse and it was obviously a mix up.
For intentionally doing it would she have left? I think that perhaps I am not at liberty to speak on her behalf one way or the other.
Edited because I can’t spell worth poo.
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest
– John Keats
Sometimes I think people try to make a horse into something he isn’t. Some horses aren’t natural hunters. Oh, sure, I could longe Nigel to death, find some drug, bleed, etc to make him quiet enough since he has a nice jump, but I don’t. We stay with the jumpers, and, on a good day, maybe the eq. Horses are happiest doing what they are naturally suited to do. You can tell me these professionals can’t tell when looking at and trying a horse - for the most part - what they’re suited to. But I’m sure what happens is they find one that is soooo fancy and is this far away from being quiet enough to be a winner in the hunter ring. The trainer knows he can do something to “fix” it either through training or, in the back - or front as it might be - of his head, through drugs that will make it go perfect.
C. Boylen - I hear what you’re saying about legislating morality, etc. It’s a neverending debate in all fields.
“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V
What is the use for Reserpine?
Yeah, poor Todd, it must really suck to be unable to find help that can read. I would offer my services, but I am the Queen of Mixing Up Feed Tubs. I mean, gee, I have to look at the names on the feed tubs at least twice when I’m feeding to make sure the right horse gets the right tub, and I only have 2 horses! So someone else will have to volunteer.
The 27 pages will not tell you when the list becomes public knowledge – Somebody was able to tell us that it was too late to make the Dec/Jan issue of USAE magazine, so the list will probably be published in the magazine in February although it should be posted on the USAE website ‘sometime’ before then – Seems to be some confusion about when the reasons for the suspensions will be published –
Why Beezer, I was just thinking the same thing. Such an appropriate wonder around Christmas.
because these are the people that are making decisions about your horse and taking care of your horses at the show.
Thank you Portia, again. That was why I asked DH if he had done research. Listening last year to these two men, was enlightening to say the least. One of the reasons I moved my horse.
After witnessing a friends wonderful AO horse becoming ill, then turning into pneumonia, and finding out that his auto immune system had shut down. Watching her racing him to the clinic, and finding out that all of this was due to poor usage of Dex. She had no idea, as I didn’t either. It has taken over a year for him to recover, it so easily could have gone the other way. She was a hands on owner as well. As I am. Now, both of us have become slowly, much smarter.
Also, injecting the coffin joints is one of the most painful things our horses can endure. No matter how wonderful your vet is, how good, it is plain incredibly painful for them.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by holy smoke:
so who knows why these folks were suspended?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Drugs!
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
… It’s not like they can limit the person’s access to the airwaves or public grounds…
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
too bad the shows can’t jam signals (other than the walkie talkies of show officials)…
“That lowdown scoundrel deserves to be kicked to death by a jackass, and I’m just the one to do it,” --Texas congressional candidate John F. Parker.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Palisades:
I have problems with the idea of Weatherford’s scoring system. Hunters are supposed to be about the whole picture- I would venture that what happens in the air over the jumps is worth very little relative to way of going, pace, strides, etc. Under that system, a horse that bucked in every corner could at worst receive a 0 out of 10, but if it jumped well once the rider got it pointed in the right direction, it could still win the class. That’s just not right- judges need to be able to look at the bigger picture and choose winners who not only performed each “movement” correctly, but did the in between stuff as well. Dressage is different because it really is just a series of one movement after another- hunters has a LOT more of the in between jumps time that you just can’t mark with a system like that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you not at all understand Weatherford’s proposal? Or is it the math that is throwing you?
Hmmm… horse scored on manners & suitability, gaits, general impression, and jump. So if no co-efficient is applied, that makes the quality of jump worth 25% of the total score. If a coefficient of 2 is applied to both manners and general impression, the jump is now worth only 16%.
That said, the quality of jump should be as important as what happens between the fences. Why do you think one rub will take someone out of contention even if everything else was fantastic?
~formerly Master Tally~
[This message was edited by wanderlust on Jan. 06, 2004 at 12:11 PM.]
SunDanceKid, (sorry, I can’t type backwards)
As far as the little pony kid and her parents?
I hope if their trainer is suspended for illegally drugging his horses that they find a trainer who doesn’t! Taking a look at the new list and picking a name that isn’t on it, would be a good start.
Then they won’t have to research medications.
Hear, hear…I was an active observer in the coke-filled days of the 80s show scene (I was a junior who often went showing w/o my mom, so I got to listen to a lot of the hs gossip and see some really sketchy stuff), where many, many people and horses were skating on thin ice, drug-wise. Then, as now, there are enough BNTs who wont do this sort of stuff, not simply because they might get caught, but because it is bad for the horses and does nothing to build better riders. So many the trainers I knew of at that time who were walking on the other side of legality ended up being found out, getting out of the horse biz, or stopping what they were doing- detoxing, if you will. One BNT I knew very well took a decade-long break, got married and had some kids, learned how to play golf, and finally got back into training again after figuring out how to not give in to the various pressures to use drugs. I’m not trying to sound holier-than-thou, but it’s wrong and exploitative to drug an animal for performance purposes, and I shudder to think of the impression it makes on kids who are like I was- all ears and eyes, watching from the sidelines.
You can take a line and say it isn’t straight- but that wont change its shape. Jets to Brazil
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> My point was that I may not be able to get the vet quickly (small time person taking back seat to big time barn with 30 horses to inject) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That ‘big time barn’ should stay at home until those 30 horses in need of injections are sound and healthy.
Just wondering when the next people will be up and posted.
I know one should choose a trainer with impeccable references and reputation and be able to trust him or her to make training, health decisions regarding ones horse. But if I did all this work in researching a trainer, talking to clients, vet, farrier, and that trainer still drugged my horse without my knowledge, I would be wicked pissed - whether it was drug tested or not. I would like to know what’s happening to the horse under me - or the horse bearing my name (ownership). I know this is a hypothetical, but still sometimes we do our best to judge character and we are wrong.
“When I bestride him, I soar, I am a hawk: he trots the air; the earth sings when he touches it; the basest horn of his hoof is more musical than the pipe of Hermes.”
– Shakespeare, Henry V
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Well, since Darkerhorse so bravely laid out his medication program I’ll lay out mine.
Well, that was easy. Now, about my horse. I have an OTTB that fractured left front P2 as a 2yo, had 3 screws inserted initially, and 2 later removed. You can actually feel the end of the remaining screw. He toes in both front, more severely on the LF due to the old injury. He has a slight bow on LF. I’ve had the horse exactly 9 years (since 12/31/94) and I think I’ve given him a grand total of 7 tabs of bute. For the first 2 years I showed him, we went to 2 shows a month (trainer requirement). Now he does 12-20 shows from April -Sept. I lesson once a week. He is 14 years old, and I rode him yesterday and thought, wow, he feels better than ever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But Flash, you said on a thread in Horse Care that you use dex to stop allergy-related head tossing during those summer months. You’d have to be using it pretty regularly, or that would reappear. Ever wonder if that’s helping your horse stay sound as well?
Big shows of course would need more than one vet.
I don’t expect my trainer to play vet, I expect him to provide training services. I would turn to my vet for medications.
Why do we expect TRAINERS to fully understand and be able to coordinate multiple medications on multiple horses when they do not have a vet school education? How many of them have college or graduate degrees in a related field? Maybe they should not be carrying that burden, espeically when their mistakes result in fines and suspensions.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> How is a horse accidentally drugged? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Lots of ways. It isn’t that hard for someone to mix up feeds at 4am without enough coffee. 
Stupid people bug me.
STOP!!! Where’s that sense of humor???
two 60cc syringes are needed to actually kill a horse. so the fact that trainers were actually using this is a very scary but real. not to mention very disapointing when all the names are released.
