The WEIGHT issue

[hoopoe]

Wow, This is such an issue. I thought at the beginning that it was just one comment from a thoughtless judge, but this problem sounds pervasive. This young lady aiming for DEVON has my full backing. She sounds slim, fit and VERY light boned with long thin muscles. I second the pleas for her to NOT listen to the Yahoos whom she thinks matter and listen to her own self and her doctor.

That is right. Is there not one GP on this BB who can talk about weight issues in pre and adolescent girls and boys? Does someone know of a rider who is also a practitioner who they can share this thread with. I feel the AHSA needs to look into why this trend is building. In the general population the information on how anorexia nervosa and bulemia is killing our young adults is well known. People who put themselves in leadership rolls of youth (trainers judges) need to be versed on how their off hand comments can lead to big trouble.

Remember, the comment on how this thread started was over the opinion that the rider needed to loose FIVE pounds. I could appear to loose that much weight with a well tailored coat.

[satin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coreene:
And have you ever noticed how a gay trainer that knows nothing about women or their metabolism seem to be experts in weight loss?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coreene- I think your reference to sexuality is really inappropriate.

[CTT]

Lily and JRLeaugeGoddes Thanks for your coments. I got a kick out of yours JR about me. wat we can do is start in our barns. from their go on to other things but we need to see hands on who feels this is a problem and want to do something to stop it. Im sure you have friends who share your views. Get together and have them educate within teir diffrent barns on this topic. there is so much we can do it just takes time to get it accross.

As for J.turnners coment on the price of foods. Yes it is expensive. but it doesn’t involve eating the xpensive stuff. Its just adjusting our diet and cooking habits. there are so many thingsthat we can do. Some starches are not bad. look at your plate and think of ideas of incorparateing a well rounded dinner. Im in a diffrent spot im trying to gain weight so my advice on eating habits are more geared twards people like me. But on your other coment about how you can be lazy. Hey im lazy too. I realy wish you were back in CT since my sister is their. She is who helped me get more in tune with everciseing and eating right. Another thing that was brought up is Time. How do we do it when we don’t have alot of it. Im a college student and for me it is sometimes hard. but takeing 30 mins out of your schedgual a day is suficent. we are constently active and see no time and the first chance we get to rest we take it but by incorparateing exerciseing as a stress reliever is a way to start. If your not active then try this. We all love to walk when it comes to relaxing. Right? well start their and get yourself in the ruteen of going out and just walking. then you can develope that time to expand. Its not posable for someone to do it every day but atleast 3 days a week. It takes disapline id the bottome line and the more disaplined we are with our health the better and more we are able to utalize our time properly. Remember it takes time.

[dennaj]

Does anyone here want to help with a letter writing campaign to the AHSA about this weight issue. If you would like to E mail me at dennaj@gnv.fdt.net I will send it on to the AHSA with a letter from me and letters from the rest of the University of Florida team members. Perhaps this will bring up the discussion in the judging forums (I doubt it but it is worth a try).

[Regalmeans]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRG:
[B]had the choice of carrying a 200lb person or a 140lb person, what would you choose? I would choose the lighter. JMHO

[This message has been edited by JRG (edited 12-04-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would choose the better more effective rider. A horse can carry up to a certain % of their body weight and for most good sized hunter/jumpers I really don’t think it matters. Besides would you rather have an anorexic rider who weights next to nothing and passes out in the middle of the course?

[dennaj]

I think that the major problem with this issue is that most people who make comments on peoples weight, are unwilling to accept that there are actually, very physically fit individuals that are not twigs.

I do not speak from my own personal experience, as for most of my life I have had to keep telling people that I did not have an eating disorder (which any one who has ever had a meal with me will attest too), but I speak from experience as a trainer.

If your plan is to let someone know that they are out of shape, i.e. they look like working out in the gym would make their riding easier from both the standpoint of health, but also in the way the rider looks and feels about herself. Why not suggest that the rider might want to work on fitness or strength.

There seems to be a trend developing in this country. Tell someone the first thing that pops into your head, no matter how hurtful, and call it honesty. How many of you on this board have had someone say something to you, that affected your self esteem, and your body image, and had the individual who made the hurtful comment, follow it up with something like, I am just being honest, or I am just trying to help.

Get real, what ever happened to the old addage, if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all.

And to all of you who posted and said things about being overweight or underweight. As long as you are happy and healthy with the body that god gave you, then you are PERFECT. Dont change a thing!!!

[Kelsy]

Okay I’ll be totally honest with this topic; I missed it the first time around but anyhow…

As I’ve been growing up in the “A” Circuit World, the idea of being thin has always been a prevalent thought in my head. None of my trainers have ever told me that I need to lose weight, but they have made it clear that it is not frowned upon to lose weight. Currently I’m 5’8" 1/2 and 140, and I have never felt so fat in my life. To see all the other riders (all of my friends), be so thin just makes me more than anything want to be thinner. I don’t have an eating disorder, but sometimes the IDEA of eating makes me want to vomit and on some days I feel terrible about myself if I eat.

Last year, I was starting to outgrow my ponies, and I thought maybe I’m just too fat. I started smoking cigarettes so that I wouldn’t get hungry. Every pound I lost was such a victory to me. I went to counseling, and I’m glad to say I’m better about it, but I don’t think I’ll ever totally be OKAY with my weight. In so many ways I did, and still do, equate thinness with happiness. As I’m sure a model or actress has to deal with this, it’s hard to grow up in a world where thinness and perfection is so greatly emphasized.

To me, being thin is, as far as I’m concerned, perfection, but perfection which you can’t ever fully achieve…

In any case, I just wanted to say from a junior’s perspective that this is such a big issue. It’s something which I wish so much could be helped because I know from experience that it can ruin lives.

Anyways, I can’t believe a judge would ever say that to someone because I know how much it hurts to hear someone else say it.

So guys, don’t think I’m weird becuase I posted how I felt about food… I mean, I’m getting better about it, but I just wanted to show how big of a thing it was.

[This message has been edited by Kelsy (edited 12-04-2000).]

[Portia]

Article 2208. Position.

1. General. Rider should have a workmanlike appearance, seat and hands light and supple, conveying an impression of complete control should any emergency arise. …

2. Hands. Hands should be over and in front of the horse’s withers, knuckles thirty degrees inside the vertical, hands slightly apart and making a straight line from the horse’s mouth to rider’s elbow. Method of holding reins is optional and bight of reins may fall on either side. However, all reins must be picked up at the same time.

3. Basic Position. The eyes should be up and shoulders back. Toes should be at an angle best suited to rider’s conformation: ankles flexed in, heels down, calf of leg in contact with horse and slightly behind girth. Iron should be on the ball of the foot and must not be tied to the girth.

4. Position in Motion. At the walk, sitting trot and canter, body should be a couple of degrees in front of the vertical; posting trot, inclined forward; galloping and jumping, same inclination as the posting trot.

5. Mounting and Dismounting. To mount, take the reins in left hand and place hand on withers. Grasp stirrup leather with right hand and insert left foot in stirrup, toe in girth and mount. To dismount, rider may either step down or slide down. The size of rider must be taken into consideration.

Article 2209. Appointments.

1. Personal. Exhibitors and judges should bear in mind at all times entries are being judged on ability rather than on personal attire. …

Those are the rules for hunter eq. Someone show us where it says in these standards: “Personal Appearance. Rider must be tall and slender.”

The only reference in the hunter eq rules to a rider’s size is that the judge the size has to be taken into account when mounting – meaning the judge should factor in that a kid who is 5’ tall will look awkward trying to mount somebody’s else’s 17 hand horse, regardless of how good a rider they are and not hold that against them. I realize that the tall and slender thing is ingrained in the minds of Eq judges, trainers, and riders, but someone ought to point out that it is not engrained in the rules.

[This message has been edited by Portia (edited 04-04-2000).]

[JumperEq]

Okay…at 5’4" and 113 lbs, I know that I’m not fat, per se, but I feel too big for my body. (If that makes sense, its the only way I could think of wording it) I hate looking at my 5’9", 108 lb friend… She’s all legs and skinny as a rail while I have kinda short legs and a long torso. It makes me mad that she’s quitting riding when I know she could go so far in the eq divisions while I “suffer” through living in my body.

I don’t have a eating disorder though. I manage my diet so I eat between 1000-1500 calories of healthy food a day. What hurts the most is when my friends make fun of me when I eat things with less calories then what they do (i.e. I buy water at the movies instead of pop) And I don’t just depend on my “diet” to lose weight. I also run and play basketball. I’m trying to convince my guidance counselor into letting me into the athletic skills class (for school athletes) which would put into weight lifting but he feels that me being on our school equestrian team doesn’t qualify me as a student athlete.

Its not just the show world that puts pressure on teens (specifically) to be skinny. I get it from tv, magazines, people at school, etc. I hate it when people joke around that I’m getting a little “pudgy”.

I’ll probably add more later when I think of it.

~Erin

[Coreene]

Duffy, you rock! More women should be as secure as you.

It’s no secret why Mode Magazine is such a success - because most of us in the real world are larger than size 12.

[JRG]

I have read everyones post and I will start by saying where I stand on these issues.

I agree more healthy things should be sold at horse shows.
I also agree that the judges comments should have been left to her self, she can think them it is still a free country but decorum should have prevailed.
I also agree you are there to learn to ride not be condemned for the size you are. I am talking about clinics.
As for the weight issue. This is not ment to condemn anyone.
A horse should only carry a portion of its own body weight. I am not going to state it because I don’t have the web page in front of me to take an exact quote. Anymore and it hinders the horse physically. This refures to obesity not just moderatley heavy.
I am a firm believer in “Fit horse, Fit Rider” no matter what the size is, and suitablility to count. I think that a overly thin rider is or can be just as unfit as a heavy rider.
This is a sport where fitness only helps in the task at hand.
But I don’t think it is just a case of a couple of trainers and judges being misguided. The media plays a huge part in the way we all look at ourselves and each other. Fitness should be the issue here not just a type or size, and lets not forget about suitablity.
I think that a larger rider on a small horse looks just as poor as a small rider on a horse that is too large. After all you go to a show to be judged. You are compared to everone else in the class and placed according to one or two peoples opinion of what a good ride looks like. It is very subjective.

[Flash44]

I think a horse can carry 25% of it’s healthy body weight.

[Nora]

I’d just like to say that I’m very happy to see this issue discussed in such a mature fasion. I ride in the equitation, and I am 5’5", 145 lb. Guess what? I hardly eat at all. I go directly from the barn to the gym. I ride 6 days a week , and sometimes more than one horse a day depending on hif I have time (I take all honors classes in high school, so I have to keep my grades up, and of course, I do go to the gym every day after the barn)
I do not look overly heavy on my horse. Yes, I WILL AGREE, a thinner rider might “create a better picture”. But the point is, you shouldn’t penalize a rider that has an extremely nice position just because she is heavy. I know this kind of dicrimination occurs due to several things. I showed in the 12-14 Eq. last year (I do 15-17 this year) and I pinned VERY inconsistantly in the flat classes. I would WIN (or be top 3) in an Eq. class with 20 or more riders under certain judges at bigger shows, and then at the same time, in smaller shows, under certain judges, I have not even pinned at all. Not to brag, but I work very hard on my position, and the flat classes that I won I deserved to win.
I have tried starving myself to lose weight. I have tried not eating anything, just eating certain things, and watching my friends eat while I sat hungry and LITERALLY just starving myself, it was no fun. When I do not eat I get very sick (I have a blood sugar problem. I ended up riding WORSE and pinning worse under no food than I did under a full stomach. I had to learn that I WAS fit. I work out. I try my hardest. And no, I will not ever be a size 2. I will most likely always be a size 8 or 10 like I am now. LOL when I was showing in FL I was watching a girl that did the EQ. against me and she was VERY VERY thin. I commented to my trainer (who, BTW, is EXTREMELY thin herself, and altough she encourages me to lose weight, she realizes that I’m healthy and that I try as hard as I can to stay thin)well, anyway, I commented to her that “I want hips like that for my birthday”…she laughed at me and said “I don’t think it is physically POSSIBLE for you to have hips like that Nora…” It was funny.
So to sum things up, I am very sensitive about my weight. I would be offended if a judge or someone that I cliniced with made a comment to me like the ones that I’ve heard made on this BB. However, I woudln’t take it out of proportion. I would accept that that is one individual’s opinion of me, and move on with my life. I would love be thinner, but I know that I’m doing my best to stay as thin as possible, and you can only do what you can do. So anyway, even though I’m not completely satisfied with myself, who is? No one, really is, and if it’s not your weight you are unhappy with it’s something else. So I guess we all just have to take what we get and work with it… Some people are blessed with the fact that they can eat what they want and stay thin…that is great for them. Others, like myself, have to watch everything we eat if we want to stay at least normal weight. Oh well, this is the end of my long, drawn out, essentially pointless post : )

[dcm]

Being a horseshow mom of a 13 year old girl, this kind of thing really saddens me. My daughter will never be tall and thin. She is 5’4" and 115 lbs. Not much fat, but plenty of muscle. If I ever hear of a judge saying these sort of things to my child, I will do everything within my power to see that that judge is nowhere near my child again. Ditto the trainer. Fortunately, her trainer is a gem.

Can the show organizers be contacted about this? Could a circuit start a “black list” for judges that make weight a criteria for winning and not invite them back? Maybe as part of a judge’s training, they need to learn about eating disorders and the damage to one’s health? What about a letter writing campaign to AHSA?

It seems like there is plenty that we could do, we just need to get organized and get the ball rolling.

[JB]

Cozmo! I CAN’T BELIEVE that someone, not just one, but THREE people would say that at 5’8", 120lb, you need to lose weight, much less 10lb! My Gawd! I’m 5’5", between 115 and 120, and I am NOT fat! I wear a size 4. OOOOO, some people. Ignore them, totally. If you feel good about your body (think back to BEFORE this incident), then to heck with your trainer and that idiot judge. Please do not attempt any weight loss diet. You’ll reget it the rest of your life, much more than you’d ever regret not winning. But good luck - if you’re the best rider, you’ll win (sheesh, at least I’d like to think).

[dennaj]

At exactly what forum at the AHSA convention could this subject be addressed. Does anyone know? If there were enough people who voiced their opinion, then perhaps it would have some sort of affect.

[satin]

PepTalk, I’m not an expert on dieting, but losing 20-50 pounds in 3 months sounds unreasonable to me- and starving yourself certainly isn’t the way to do it! If you’re determined to lose weight, make an appointment with your doctor to discuss a healthy way of going about it.
In my experiences, the best rider has won- regardless of weight. A judge who discriminates based on weight is just as bad as one who will let the color of a rider’s skin influence his placings.
Please talk with a doctor or nutritionist about the healthy way to lose weight- and don’t worry about what some silly judge may or may not say.

[Coreene]

Sorry, didn’t mean to offend. I apologize for that, you’re right.

[Flash44]

I think eating healthy is much cheaper. There are always specials at the grocery store, and as long as you eat in season fruits and veggies, the cost is cheap. WE have a 3’x3’ garden and get alot of fresh produce from there. And we are in a town house, so we have very little space. Compared to canned, frozen and prepackaged food, fresh food is cheap. When boneless skinless chicken breasts go on sale, I buy 6 packs.

Very few people have much free time, especially those who ride! However, you can get a pair of running shoes (get good ones taht fit!) and get a great workout in as little as 20 minutes by stepping outside your front door. I thought I was too busy to exercise, but my health is more important than that magazine (People junkie) or TV show.

[stop4]

I never thought I was fat untill I started showing more. There are just so many people out there that are thin, it makes it really hard if you are a size 6 like me and people still think that you are too heavy. When ever I eat at shows some of my freinds look at me like “what are you doing eating?? I thought you were needed to loose weight.”
I know that it is easy to sit here and say that it is awful that kids are starving themselves but it is not so blck and white for a young girl who lost a class b/c she isn’t thin enough.
Reagalmeans, Im sick of all this, too. Like all the wieght loss adds in horse magazines and little pony riders thinking they are too heavy. But think how much influence that would have over you if you were a young girl who wasn’t a size 2.