DB, I knew that. I honestly believe it to be a fluke. Repeat that same cross and I guarantee it wouldn’t happen again.
Again the ones who are getting so upset over this are not even WB breeders. They are not even in the business, but have a whole lot to say about it. :lol:
I wanted to add that this is JMOHO. I personally hate ponies. Yes, they can be cute, but I hate riding them. I don’t care how successful a pony is/was. They are not my cup of tea.
It’s quite possible a well bred reiner may cost more than a WB but the COSTS in creating that weanling are more determined by your geographical area, your philosophy of foal raising, your vet skills etc. So you seem to be saying that there is some magical number that gets added into the expense because it’s a WB. Given the same set of circumstances the reiner weanling may be more expensive because the stud fee is higher ( and possibley because demand is high).
Don’t need to be a breeder to have an opinion. I think the only one that seems to be getting really excited is you.
The name of the forum is SPORT HORSE BREEDING, not WB breeding. How can you say the breeder of one of the top ranked CCI**** Eventers in the world is not in the business?
Sweetmudderofgawd!
It’s quite possible a well bred reiner may cost more than a WB but the COSTS
IT DOES NOT MATTER when you do market studies. You compare like to like and sell prices of each. Who CARES, stay in one realm!
So you seem to be saying that there is some magical number that gets added into the expense because it’s a WB.
NO! Im saying that finding quality out of proven bloodlines is not easy under 10K. Proven fact. Supply and Demand, whatever you want to call it. Finding the elite well bred horses are not easy for cheap.
Given the same set of circumstances the reiner weanling may be more expensive because the stud fee is higher ( and possibley because demand is high).
Again, you cant stay on track. Were talking of our breeding and why well bred warmblood horses cost so much. Not ponies, not grade horses, not QH, not mustangs, not anything but well bred WB horses.
STF…I certainly hope you have not gotten the impression I don’t like WB’s…that’s not true. While they are not my breed of choice to own and ride, I certainly admire a nice one…just like any breed. I board a couple of them and am around them daily also…so it’s not in ignorance that I choose to ride the breed I do. We all march to the beat of a different drummer and my heart goes to my little horses. I am sure never going to get rich breeding them but it doesn’t sound like you folks selling weanlings for $10,000+ are doing much better on the bottom line. 
I would think you all would welcome the perspectives of breeders other than WB’s. You can see how those of us who are forced to sell for much less due to our market or our competition and stay in business…while still taking very good care of our horses. You may find it handy to know someday if the sport horse market crashes and prices drop drastically…or buyers keep going to Europe instead of buying here. It’s not apples and oranges so much as the management choices you make when it comes to costs. I sure don’t believe a WB baby eats all that much more than a horse of any breed so that you can’t even compare the costs of raising them. Sure many of us don’t have inspections and our breeding costs may be less but that can apply to WB’s also.
Your last post sure doesn’t make a non WB breeder feel very welcome to join in a discussion and share one’s perspectives when the thread was never specified “for WB breeders only.”:no: If all you want is a discussion of WB breeders bellyaching as to how much it costs to raise their elite inspected branded olympic prospects to justify your prices for them…than next time you might be more clear in your first post that no non WB breeders should join in.
It’s quite possible a well bred reiner may cost more than a WB but the COSTS
IT DOES NOT MATTER when you do market studies. You compare like to like and sell prices of each. Who CARES, stay in one realm!
So you seem to be saying that there is some magical number that gets added into the expense because it’s a WB.
NO! Im saying that finding quality out of proven bloodlines is not easy under 10K. Proven fact. Supply and Demand, whatever you want to call it. Finding the elite well bred horses are not easy for cheap.
Given the same set of circumstances the reiner weanling may be more expensive because the stud fee is higher ( and possibley because demand is high).
Again, you cant stay on track. Were talking of our breeding and why well bred warmblood horses cost so much. Not ponies, not grade horses, not QH, not mustangs, not anything but well bred WB horses. 
I don’t know if I agree with you. I think there are way more Teddy’s out there than anyone realizes. The problem is that no one will hardly ever give a 14:1 hand pony a chance like Teddy had. Wynn sacrificed a lot to prove he could do it and I sure hope it opens some minds that you don’t have to have a WB sport horse to go out and play in the big time.
I love riding ponies by the way…so much more fun than big horses! It is refreshing to see a pony kicking butt at the top!
WB sport horse to go out and play in the big time.
Wasnt Teddy the first pony ever to go that far?
I think the first true pony in eventing at that level but there have been many others small horses (hony) types to do well in the sport at very high levels.
Don’t forget Stroller and Seldom Seen…who were only an inch or so taller than Teddy. Ponies are not even allowed to compete in the olympics in dressage due to FEI size rules so that may be one reason you haven’t seen any yet at the games.
Truth is though…how many top riders like Karen O’ Conner would ever even consider a pony instead of a horse for top competition? How many uber talented little ones never get the chance Teddy did? I suspect way more than anyone realizes are out there.
I love Teddy’s success because it will help people open their minds to what ponies and little horses can do…and no…I don’t think he is a freak. Yes he is very talented but not a freak.
[QUOTE=westernrider;2607993]
I guess I’m just trying to illustrate that the COST is pretty much seperate and distinct from the WORTH of a particular horse. As a breeder, if I consistently spend more to produce horses than they are WORTH-- well, I’m not doing a very good job. [/QUOTE]
Well said! :yes:
Quote:
Or![](ginally Posted by [B]westernrider[/B] <a href="http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2607993#post2607993">[IMG]http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif)</a>
[I]I guess I'm just trying to illustrate that the COST is pretty much seperate and distinct from the WORTH of a particular horse. As a breeder, if I consistently spend more to produce horses than they are WORTH-- well, I'm not doing a very good job.
[/I]CAJumper wrote:
Well said! :yes:
I agreed with every word of westernrider’s post. Very thoughtful and very well put. :yes:
I also have found Pwynn lenghty outline of her breeding journey to be extremely interesting and worthy of admiration for courage, perseverance and refusal to be swayed from a plan that seems to be working. :yes:
And I don’t think this discussion is helped at all by anyone bashing other breeder’s choices, websites, horses or the like. This has been a very interesting, thought provoking thread. I hope it can stay that way.
Well no duh. How many full sibling success stories are out there regardless of registry or lack thereof? If full sibling crosses were all it took to win the Olympics or the Derby, we really wouldn’t be quoting Tesio or discussing breeding costs now would we?
I have been reading this thread with interest and think the original cost breakdown was fairly conservative and of course the best case senario…get a sick foal or mare, fertility issues, etc, etc and costs go up. As always Pywnn had some interesting thoughts on things though I seldom agree…I enjoyed her honest discussion;)
I am not sure where the pony bashing came up in this thread but I do have to say that my German Riding Pony breeding program closely corelates with WB breeding…frozen semen from the same dealers, same inspections with the same judges, similar breeding goals except for size etc…so I would think it can fully compare with any WB program. The one big difference is GRP’s are very new in this country and thier is a very limited supply currently…
DMK - stop being reasonable!
I guess what I find confusing is the breeders that price all their foals across the board at the same price. It’s not the buyers responsiblility to make the breeder profitable. And breeding horses is expensive & risky & I would assume you know that entering into it.
Kudos to you if your foal comes out a top specimen, I would charge accordingly.
But if you have bad luck or your folas aren’t great - don’t look to the buyer to recoup those costs…
Well some bloodlines have proven their worth over the years.
Take Jalisco B for example. He had 6 offspring competing at the 1992 Barcelona games at one time. How is that for proven! :lol:
Other stallions have proven their worth in numbers by siring many approved son, elite mares.
Like Grand Veneur himself, great SF stallion he was sired over 335 sucessful showjumpers in his life. I mean, wow!
Look at Rubinstein and how many of his offspring topped the FEI charts as well as sucessful stallion themself (Rhondimant, Royal Diamond, Rotspon, etc, etc).
Not to mention the Donnerhall legacy. Donnerhall offspring like Don Premiro, Davignon, Del Perio, De Niro, etc, etc, etc, etc…
Bloodlines do make a difference.
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;2607821]
Oh, nonsense, diamondgirl. You are only seeing what you want to see. All of my sportponies are at least half TB–most are 3/4. There’s just no registry for them (actually, Teddy’s mom is registered with the American Remount Association, but who cares–which is why I haven’t registered any of the other 1/2 TB broodmares I’ve had) and as I’ve said for years, I don’t think the current WB registries offer enough for my business to make it worth my while going through the trouble and expense to have them registered via inspection (or even going a performance route). All of the remaining (hunter) ponies are registered either half or full welsh. Moreover, even my foundation mare was registered, as was my foundation stallion and all of the outside stallions I’ve bred to.
But if you want to continue to be selectively perceptive, be my guest! :D[/QUOTE]
Growing up, I was always told that an unregistered horse is considered a grade horse. There is no shame in that, it is simply a matter of fact. I well remember the many times the vets wrote “grade” for breed when filling out a Coggins report on my Aunt’s unregistered Saddlebred crosses!!
And Wynn, while I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what you have accomplished with your breeding program, I have to agree that you cannot quite compare your program to that of breeders who spend $20K - $30K to buy a quality warmblood mare and then spend another several thousand to get her bred to a “top of the charts” warmblood stallion. It IS like comparing apples to oranges.
Who said anyone is doing that??? Nobody said that. I said TOP offspring go for 10K and up. Not all horses are priced “across the board!” There is not ONE breeder I know that does not evaluate their offspring and give it a price based on what it is, bloodlines, inspection scores, etc, etc. THAT was not what was being said.
The whole post was to prove to people why its expensive to breed and make people understand that 10K for a super bred horse is NOT a lot of money once you put the numbers to it.
