[QUOTE][Growing up, I was always told that an unregistered horse is considered a grade horse. There is no shame in that, it is simply a matter of fact.
/QUOTE]
Merlot is a grade horse, even though he has good bloodlines and I knew his sire, but in reality is a grade mutt! You could not give me 50K for him, I love him that much! Maybe 75K, but… :lol:
I am not a breeder but did buy my first weanling last year, so I have been paying for him since he was 4.5 months old. I think a lot of those numbers are low, especially the vet costs and grain, bedding, etc.
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;2607548]
I’ve sold @$115,000 worth of horse flesh in @ 12 years. Not much, by a lot of folks standards, and only one year of profit. But look deeper into the “windfall” business plan, OK. That sum comes out to about $10,000 per year in income on average. Again on average, my biz expenses have been between $20-25,000 per year, year after year, except for 18 months between 2005 and the end of 2006 (the original Teddy and Karen period).
So, if you use those averages, my business has lost between $120-160K roughly since its existance (since I did have quite a few years at closer to $20K, Teddy’s 18 months of hyper-expense are kind of absorbed there–again, roughly!). Meanwhile, the IRS expects you to not only make a profit, but ALSO recoup your losses…[/QUOTE]
So what are you eating, Pwynn?
How do you live? On loans or credit cards that you pay off when times are good?
Or do you have a real job that pays the bills? Or a rich Significant Other?
You aren’t running a business, you’re supporting a habit.
[QUOTE=hluing;2608210]
I have been reading this thread with interest and think the original cost breakdown was fairly conservative and of course the best case senario…get a sick foal or mare, fertility issues, etc, etc and costs go up. As always Pywnn had some interesting thoughts on things though I seldom agree…I enjoyed her honest discussion;)
I am not sure where the pony bashing came up in this thread but I do have to say that my German Riding Pony breeding program closely corelates with WB breeding…frozen semen from the same dealers, same inspections with the same judges, similar breeding goals except for size etc…so I would think it can fully compare with any WB program. The one big difference is GRP’s are very new in this country and thier is a very limited supply currently…[/QUOTE]
Hluing, I would never put your WB ponies in the same category. Your ponies look like minature WBs and are true sporthorse IMHO.
Well, Pwynn, looks like you got your wish. No one is cuting you any slack. :lol:
[QUOTE=STF;2605649]
No, thats not what Im saying. Each cost is set by its own operation. What Im saying is you cant compare two seperate types of industry. What a draft is going to sell for is not what a top bred WB will sell for, changing profit margins drasticly.[/QUOTE]
I haven’t read through yet but how does the profit margin determine what it COSTS to get a foal to weaning? I thought the argument was that it costs AT LEAST what is on your spread to get a foal to weaning, so you may even be losing money. Now you are say that the cost to raise depends on the profit margin? I’m confused. But I’ll keep reading and maybe I’ll understand…
And pinetreefarm is right, a top QH will easily sell for at least as much if not more money than a top warmblood in this country. So, comparing QHs to warmbloods is probably fair. If you’ve ever been in a top QH barn, you’ll see they probably sink more money into their foals than most warmblood breeders.
I haven’t read through yet but how does the profit margin determine what it COSTS to get a foal to weaning?
It doesent, it just show how much breeders are putting into it.
so you may even be losing money.
May? :lol: You mean usually! LOL
Now you are say that the cost to raise depends on the profit margin? I’m confused. But I’ll keep reading and maybe I’ll understand…
Not what Im saying. What Im proving is that there is not a lot of profit to be made in breeding and breeders. So when someone asks why a breeder (Not me, just any breeder) would have a foal priced at 10K or above, there are reasons they do this.
And pinetreefarm is right, a top QH will easily sell for at least as much if not more money
Im in TX, trust me I know what the QH’s can bring. CAN, key word there as well.
So, comparing QHs to warmbloods is probably fair.
Nope, totally different market as well as type of buyers. Plus the # of QH’s to WB’s really throw the ratio off when you do a supply and demand ratio.
If you’ve ever been in a top QH barn, you’ll see they probably sink more money into their foals than most warmblood breeders
Some. That is about the biggest common factor between the two
what if you narrowed it down to just cutting horses ???
Tamara in TNWow…this is getting stupid beyond belief. So now GRP’s are the “approved category” of apples and not oranges like Wynn’s Gold medal winning crossbred pony since they look like minature WB’s? What in the hell do you think a GRP is? it’s a crossbred sport pony for God’s sake! A mixture of WB, arab, TB, welsh, New Forest, etc… Good grief! :no:
:sigh:
Thank goodness the vast majority of horse owners don’t feel the need to charge horse buyers the amount of money they’ve spent on the sale horse over the years for feed, vet bills, training, registration fees, etc!
Then it would be possible since we have so many common factors in type, market, buyers, breeders, etc.
I think most posters are just saying it is expensive to breed and raise a baby, some more than others. I don’t care what breed, they all eat the same, need care the same, the only maybe big difference is the costs of each different area and the stud fees and the initial cost of your broodmares which can make a huge difference in the value of the weanling. I am in the middle of race horse country, QH and TB, good mares cost several thousand and some way over one hundred thousand and the stud fees usually range from $3,500 to $100,000. You have to know each market and yes, any foal may turn out crooked, sick, or not really the athlete that you had hoped for. Most breeders take everything into account before pricing a foal.
Always remember, it takes just as much to feed a bad horse as a good horse.
When I lost Bogart, who was one of the best we bred and I was keeping him for myself, I was sickened. Not only on the money as he was a yearling then, but the work we put into it. It still makes me ill today to think that I lost him, even with the colic sugery. Its not all about the money.
one is Teddy who I could have sold for a huge sum but chose to basically give away to the sport of eventing (I’d love it if someone asked me what I mean by that)
OK Pwynn, I’ll bite, What do you mean by that?
The difference in the European registeries is that the stallions need to be performance tested, and the mares need to have that quality of sire for a minimum of five generations.
Only sons of Main Mare Book mares can be considered as stallion candidates.
The development of the indexes is another tool to help breeders capitalize on what a stallion can contribute or minimize what you don’t want to appear.
The KWPN system is extremely ruthless in culling stallions they approved through rigorous testing, but if the foals don’t pass muster, the stallion is put on a watch list and can lose his license. If a stallion is not heavily marketed or doesn’t belong to someone with a sizeable mare band, that stallion may not have enough get to be evaluated, even tho he is quality.
The jury not only looks at foals, but then again at intervals and a sufficent number of get need to be competing successfully.
They look for every reason to thin the ranks of the stallion roster so that only the best are used for breeding.
Stallions are also screened for OCD and semen quality.
I don’t know if QH and Arabians and other breeds common in the US have to go through such a grueling selection process, but I think if the boy has testicles that is enough for some owners to make him available as a stud.
I think that the mares and stallions who have gone through this very demanding screening process can and do produce foals that easily go for $10K and above. The process is taking a lot of the guesswork out of the equation.
Those of us who have been around the block a few times know that not every mating produces a foal better than its parents. No one here is saying that every WB foal should be started at a $10K price. There are too many variables, including the cost to produce said foal. Someone with plentiful pasture has a lower overhead than me, on the edge of the desert, with a bale of alfalfa costing $13-14.
He might be the smallest, but Hideaway’s Erin Go Bragh and Marcus Aurelius were pretty small
And I do recall Karen Lende eventing Hideaway’s Erin Shamrock.
How big was Poltroon?
[QUOTE=STF;2608628]
Then it would be possible since we have so many common factors in type, market, buyers, breeders, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but I’d wager to say that it costs MUCH more to breed to a top cutting stallion than to breed to a top warmblood.
[QUOTE=BelladonnaLily;2608732]
Yes, but I’d wager to say that it costs MUCH more to breed to a top cutting stallion than to breed to a top warmblood.[/QUOTE]
No joke! Smart Chic OLena is 25K! :eek::eek: Reminic is 15K :eek:
And they do not ship on SCO at all, mare MUST go to the ranch to be
bred. My own personal fav Babcock Ranch stallion (Trashadeous) is only
2K, which kind of suprises me, I figured he’d be higher considering what
he’s done. I’d love to have a ‘Trash’ baby.
15:1 or 15:2.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use