There are many US breeders who have horses competing at all levels, Jane. Just click on their names. sigh
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingBreeders.aspx?year=2007&viewCat=Dressage
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingBreeders.aspx?year=2007&viewCat=Eventing
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsAwards/points/leadingBreeders.aspx?year=2007&viewCat=Jumper
Not jealous at all - but some folks just don’t seem to get it. The OP has NO INTEREST in an eventing pony!! She wants a registered, Euro-style warmblood HORSE with upper level DRESSAGE potential. There is NO comparison between PWynn’s breeding program of crossbred, unregistered EVENTING PONIES and the breeding program of people who are most likely to produce what the OP wants.
I think they are jealous personally. :lol:
No… no in the slightest bit.
Im sure when he was bred, the breeder did not say “You know, Im going to breed an Pan Am contender!” LMAO Uhhh, hello! :lol:
Sharron Garner has what I want, but Id have to sell my arm, leg and kidney to get it! LOL:lol:
Another poster mentioned the cost of some QH stud fees, higher than any WB I have seen. For example Smart Chick O Lena is $25,000
The Registered (and inspected) Irish Draughts I breed to are about the price level of many WB’s and the Connemaras aren’t much less . And yes, I use mostly transported semen and I seriously doubt my vet or farrier is charging me any less than a WB breeder
Just because a stallion is not a European WB does NOT mean he is cheap. As I posted earlier, Smart Chick O Lena stands for $25,000.
I breed mostly Irish horses and the stud fee of many Registered (and inspected ) Irish Draughts is about equal to many WB’s, and Connemaras aren’t much less. Most are bred with transported semen and I seriously doubt my repro specialist is charging me any less than he charges a WB breeder.
This was the original post. In no way did she qualify it as being for a certain prior post or limit it only to certain breeds or certain classes of Euro WB’s. It may have been her intent to do so, but she wasn’t clear at all…and I’m not the only one who has pointed that out. I don’t read minds…I read what is written. I don’t infer intent from what is on the worksheet she linked.
Next time if WB dressage breeders want their own exclusive thread to bitch about buyers who don’t want to pay what you want for your high cost babies…than please…let the rest of us unwashed masses know you don’t want to hear what we have to add to your topic.
Who says we dont get what we want for our babies??? Nobody. But there are that are lacking in knowledge that do think they can find super blood for 5K! 
Dont get so defensive. This was not about you or any of you other than those who are in the WB world. It does not apply to you, obviously…
The inspiration was someone thinking of buying a WB. She was not considering going to Europe to buy a mustang or a pony.
Apologies to everyone who got their feelings stepped on in these related threads.
The first WB I produced was out of a grade mare. He beat out imported WBs at Flintridge Under the Oaks, came in second of five in the 4 yr old material class … took many honors agst imports in SoCal and this is a tough market. Mommy was a 15H unreg appendix mare. At the time we were showing at LAEC and he got High Point for the day in ALL the rings, not easy to get here.
The market has changed. I would not use that mare today and in fact quit using her after three kids. He was the best and got me hooked on the addiction. First Amendment is on my web site, in the scrapbook.
Let’s move on, we are beating the proverbial dead something or other.
Let’s move on, we are beating the proverbial dead something or other.
The proverbial mule… Mule! LOL
And lets move on… I agree!
Yup, this mule has been dead for a few pages. RIP.
I did not say that. Go back and re read what I wrote. I said you wanted to bitch about people who did not want to pay what you want…ergo the person who said your babies were not worth 10k. Honestly I don’t care what you get for your babies. More power to you if you can sell them for 10k…if they are worth it, fine. What brought me into this discussion was the concept you implied in your OP that since you spent 10K producing a foal, you felt entitled to price it high. Again I don’t know you from jack, wouldn’t know you if I ran into you anywhere, and could care less if you breed Hanoverians or Oldenburgs or what registry you belong to and frankly don’t know or care what the difference is.
Again Oakstable…the OP was not clear as to what her intentions were with this post from the start or what inspired her post. I do not read every thread on here and I’m sure I’m not the only one who does not. I appreciate your attempt to apologize for hurt feelings at least.
I am not defensive, I am only pointing out that your anbiguity is what caused this trainwreck and led to a bashing session of a pony breeders stock which did no one any good.
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;2609855]
I think my tone only got defensive when the real weird ones ignored the term crossbred so they could feel better.
But please note, Yank, that I DID put in the same post you referenced:
.
That continues to be a problem with these discussions. Take it easy and read what is written so you can recognize when someone qualifies a statement (and when idiots don’t).[/QUOTE]
Point taken. I just hate to see (what I perceived, or perhaps misperceived as) you getting defensive when quite obviously anyone should be proud to have your program. I don’t think my way of doing things is the only way by any means; I have a strategy and hope it works. If it doesn’t, I’ll change it. : )
Ammies can’t ride them.
Sometimes they can!
Of course, that was BEFORE they were 4th (Fillies) and 4th (Colts) at 2005 Dressage at Devon :winkgrin:
Entry list, bloodlines, & scores:
http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/devonresults2005.pdf
and 3rd in 1999 at Dressage at Devon
Entry list, bloodlines, & scores: http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/devonresultscolts1999.pdf
and 3rd in 2000 at Dressage at Devon
Entry list, bloodlines, & scores: http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/devonresultscolts2000.pdf
and even just out of the ribbons in 11th out of 42 very fancy names 
in 2001 at Dressage at Devon
Entry list, bloodlines, & scores: http://members.aol.com/fairviewhorsectr/devonfillies2001.pdf
Once they show how nice they are when compared to some of the best on the East Coast, I do bump their prices a bit. 
American bred sires AND dams.
I’ve just spent a good bit of time scanning the USEF breeder rankings for dressage that STF so kindly linked for us. Was not able to go below horses with twenty points, but that seems a fair number for success.
Most of the points were in levels below PSG. Now if what I’ve learned on CoTH is true, there are talented horses in almost all breeds and mixes of breeds who can do dressage up to fourth level. The big gap is between fourth level and PSG.
I counted five American bred horses with GP points from performance. They were all warmbloods. I should have made a list, but didn’t. I also counted about ten or fewer with Intermediate performance points. There weren’t many more with PSG points.
The huge majority of horses with more than twenty points were in the lower levels or young riders or A/A. I’d say more were in training and first level than anywhere else. And the vast majority of breeders had only one horse with points.
What I do not understand from the ranking is how so many horses who are listed as registered have unknown dams or damsires. There were also a lot of horses that didn’t claim registries, and a lot that didn’t list their registry numbers.
Is that a USEF recording problem?
Seems to me that Pwynn is right on when she talks about vanity buyers, because the vast majority of WB dressage horses, no matter how well bred, aren’t actually getting any higher up the levels than the Morgans or Arabians or TBs or Friesians or grade horses.
BTW, I do not consider in hand classes the equivalent of performance classes. Except in hunters, the percentage of babies and young horses who actually become stellar performance horses after winning on the line is remarkably low, I have heard. Even in hunters, it’s low.
Actually in DSHB, many of the high placing youngsters do go on to become very good under saddle competition horses. Idocus is a good example. Cabanna Boy is another.
I also do not consider in hand the equivalent of performance, but they are a straight evaluation against similar aged youngters - including some European breds that have been imported.
[QUOTE=STF;2609645]
My point is and always has been, as I have stated over and over and over and over and over again, is that quality does sell and bring the money deserved for the well bred, correct prospects.
So, when you have someone come in and question, or BELITTLE that a breeder CAN get that amount for a horse, or you have someone come in and look at one of these foals who are superior quality and think they can offer 5K for it, its a little frustrating due to many buyers lack of knowledge.[/QUOTE]
So, if I am to understand what you are saying without sending flames…buyers should just believe anything the seller says and we are stupid for asking questions?
The truth of the matter for me is, most sellers are not as knowledgeable as they think or choose to believe. Most breeders I have seen think their weanlings are quality when it isn’t always so. The crux of the matter, and the real issue behind pricing WB weanlings, is WHO determines quality? YOU? ME? Inspectors? Well, how many times have weanlings gone for inspection and come back with average scores and the owner STILL thinks it’s quality. Bloodlines are important - I totally agree - but I don’t care to spend 10K on some top bred WB when its back is too long, he is low in the pastern, and has a ewe neck. Bloodlines give you a base price to start with and then you have to price whatever pops out accordingly.
If breeders can’t handle buyers who might question “quality” and “cost” then you aren’t trying hard enough to get my business and I will look elsewhere.
If you look at the top 15 or so in the 3’6" and up hunters the most popular breed seems to be Dutch Warmblood ( unknown sire, unknown dam ) closely followed by German Warmblood ( unknown sire, unknown dam ).
This changes somewhat when you look at the 3’ divisions.
There is no requirement to list a registry or registry numbers when recording a horse. There isn’t a requirement that the horse be recorded with a registry. USEF depends on what the owner provides on the recording application.
So why are you surprised that there are no registries listed?
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