We will force all eventers to pull a turnip cart for 5 miles!! There! That will show True Natural Talent. (Plus it will move a lot of turnips thereby cutting global emissions). Besides, we all know that Warmbloods are actually Cart Horses in disguise anyways. Now we can show our True Natural Talent off to its best advantage.
Wha – ha – ha – ha – ha (evil laughter fading away)
ROTFLMAO
I did not fall off a turnip truck.
I was simply paraphrasing with Ingrid Klimke at The Horse Magazine website.
Here’s the exact quote:
Has it made a big difference for eventers in Germany – winning a gold medal at the WEG?
“I think we are much more popular again. After Athens there was a lot of talk that we were unlucky, then the bronze medal at the Europeans, now the gold medal… and in the years before, there was nothing since Seoul in 88. That is such a big gap. Now the reputation of eventing, and the support from the other riders and officials, is much better.”
Now they are riding German bred horses and they ARE dominating the world as a Team.
As to showjumping and the changes in course design, I’m just repeating the observations of Count Toptani in the 1960s. I don’t make this stuff up.
This is starting to get beyond silly… look at the damn teams.
They have always rode German bred horses, mixed in with Irish and English bred horses. The team that won the recent WEG was 2 homebreds, 1 ISH and 1 English bred.
How is that any different than in the past?
How are they dominating the sport? Because they won a WEG gold medal? How is that any different than in times past? They won medals back then. Are the top riders at Badminton and Burghley all German?
Are all the US, GB, Aus, NZ riders all riding German bred horses now? No, they are still riding the same ISH, SHSGB, NZSHs AUS breds they did in the past.
As to showjumping and the changes in course design, I’m just repeating the observations of Count Toptani in the 1960s. I don’t make this stuff up.
Oh, so now it was pre 1960s that the course were changed to suit WBs. Interesting, I keep hearing on these boards that it just in the last 20 years. Before that a WB couldn’t jump a rail and TBs ruled the known universe.
In 2007 at Badminton, the Germans started seven horses and finished 2nd, 6th, 10th and 11th. The other three horses didn’t finish at all. Of those horses, the finishers were all German breds (I’m not sure about The Ghost of Hamish, but he does carry a German FEI number. I do recognize that most of the British horses withdrew after dressage, and that might skew the numbers.
In 2006 at Badminton, Ingrid Klimke finished 2nd, five Germans ran and 3 finished.
In 2005, the last year of the old format, no Germans ran.
In 2004, no Germans ran.
In 2003, Bettina Hoy finished 9th on Ringwood Cockatoo, and one other German ran.
They came within a hair of the Gold Medal at the 2004 Olympics with the same horses and riders who didn’t start at Badminton (except for Bettina Hoy).
They won the WEG with the horses and riders who did well in the 2006 and 2007 Badminton.
Just from the numbers, it would appear that they are encouraged by the new format and are excelling at it.
Just a thought here…
But as far as I know, the Germans are not the only ones who are on the FEI committee…are they? Don’t the Brits, the Aussies and other countries have a voice? Especially countries that are traditionally extremely strong at eventing? Are those sneaky Germans instigating all these changes with complete authority and no input from other countries???
D*mmit…don’t they get enough medals? MUST they try to corrupt the ENTIRE equestrian world in their never ceasing quest for World Domination???
Just from the numbers, it would appear that they are encouraged by the new format and are excelling at it.
But so are other types of horses.
An empirical researcher would be tearing his or her hair out over the conclusions being drawn here based on such weak and prejudicial data.
How can one know that the ECONOMIC pressures to the sport didn’t just happen to result in changes which favor the position the Germans are in in this decade?
I also want to note that the increase in the level of difficulty in dressage might even be a good thing for the sport, safety-wise AND (to get back OT) breeding-wise. Same with the increase in height and challenge in show jumping. In the day of the long format, a lot of horses were just not that well broke, not that rideable. As fewer and fewer people have access to the land and the experiences (like foxhunting and steeplechasing and galloping racehorses) that were required to deal with the long-format-fit horse, all of this may be a good thing for more reasons that that it happens to favor the German program right now.
Consider how beneficial the new format could become for breeders as the other countries play catch up–and catch up they will. Will they abandon the TB and TBx? Of course not. They will make it BETTER–still fast, still agile, but a better mover with a better brain.
Oh, I know I’m not popular with this attitude with the die-hard riders, but I’m a breeder first, owner second. Riders don’t tend to have a good grip on the big picture–just their small corner of it. We breeders have to take a broader view, IMO. Whoever can come up with that fast, pretty-moving, sensitive jumper is going to be in the forefront (as in, can anyone say “Cavalier”?).
Good post, Pwynn.
It’s been so intolerably hot lately that I’m being very stupid and touchy.
[QUOTE=pwynnnorman;2618840]
Consider how beneficial the new format could become for breeders as the other countries play catch up–and catch up they will. Will they abandon the TB and TBx? Of course not. They will make it BETTER–still fast, still agile, but a better mover with a better brain.[/QUOTE]
I believe it benefits breeders most. In “all” other sports besides eventing, jumping, dressage: the breeders catch up to the course, thus proving quality of the horse and quality of training. That’s how other breeders get to BETTER. The courses/tests don’t shift:
-endurance: same milage required
-kentucky derby, triple crown: not shorter even after the complaints of too many sprinters bred
-english flat and steeplechase: no changes
-polo match:same
-driving
-reining
-vaulting
-western disclines are constant
I think it’s the massive and obvoius skewed changes, not only on the formats but in the weight of penalities. Even the French have “had it” and are going their own way and putting out their own versions of FEI tests for eventing and jumping.
Thank you pwynnnorman for your thoughtful post…
I think some of you are just happy to fight, no matter what the topic is.
:lol:
:lol: 
[QUOTE=STF;2605136]
The next time someone thinks that a 10K foal is expensive, go look at this:
http://www.spindletopfarm.net/breedingcosts.htm
And then shut your mouth!
end of rant[/QUOTE]
i don’t get it y is it so much?? Im confuzzled:confused:
and why would any1 pay that money for a foal…you can get OTTB for cheaper and they already no what there doing…
Ahh-yup!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki
And as far as endurance races go, they are over natural terrain on established trails or areas for the most part and certainly don’t require a huge area.
OK I’ll bite. What is the minumum acreage required for Endurance? If you assume the track is 10 m wide, and 100 miles long, JUST THE TRACK ITSELF is 400 acres
Just wanted to add that endurance rides consisting of 100 miles need not be 400 acres. we do ours on about 200+ acres and its a lot of bush. in fact we are thinking about a FEI ride next year, if our club can pull it together. another rider use to put on 100 milers on about 160 acres with no problems, again it had lots of bush.
and why would any1 pay that money for a foal…you can get OTTB for cheaper and they already no what there doing…
OMG…I am going to pull my hair out. I need to officially resign from this post.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;2618607]
In 2007 at Badminton, the Germans started seven horses and finished 2nd, 6th, 10th and 11th. The other three horses didn’t finish at all. Of those horses, the finishers were all German breds (I’m not sure about The Ghost of Hamish, but he does carry a German FEI number. I do recognize that most of the British horses withdrew after dressage, and that might skew the numbers.
In 2006 at Badminton, Ingrid Klimke finished 2nd, five Germans ran and 3 finished.
In 2005, the last year of the old format, no Germans ran.
In 2004, no Germans ran.
In 2003, Bettina Hoy finished 9th on Ringwood Cockatoo, and one other German ran.
They came within a hair of the Gold Medal at the 2004 Olympics with the same horses and riders who didn’t start at Badminton (except for Bettina Hoy).
They won the WEG with the horses and riders who did well in the 2006 and 2007 Badminton.
Just from the numbers, it would appear that they are encouraged by the new format and are excelling at it.[/QUOTE]
Bettina’s horse is an Irish Sport Horse, not a German WB.
Yes, I know. But she is German, she excels at dressage and she has not done nearly as well at XC as at dressage over the years. Without being certain, I would speculate that coming up in the German system has a lot to do with that.
Horse is of physical type for excelling in dressage but heavy, laboring and hard to watch as I saw them SJ at the 2004 Athens (I watched it televised at about 4 in the morning, I was not there in person). If you scroll down you’ll see a photo:
http://www.cyberhorse.net.au/cgi-bin/tve/displaynewsitem.pl?20041011olympicsdrugscandal1.txt
Bettina’s horse is also built “heavy” and the preferred type for dressage. I watched the SJ at Athens Olympics (televised, at 4 in the morning), their jump round was heavy, laboring, and by no means agile. Not a clear round put in, even after omitting the part about time faults.
Sheesh – what a rant! I didn’t read the whole thread – just killing time waiting for the vet to get here to palpate a mare. My total reproductive vet bill this year for two mares is $4700 – that includes frozen semen, one stud fee with shipped semn, ultrasounds, liquid nitrogen (I store my own semen) – make that $5000 to include any extras I forgot, like Fed Ex fees. So it’s $2500 per mare.
I do my own AI, used timed protocol (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but the nearest repro vet around here who does frozen is 2 1/2 hrs. away and charges $25 per day board), give my own HcG, Oxy, etc. based on the mobile vet’s recommendations. My mares are nice, but not States Premium. They live outside except for foaling. The babies get booted outside when they are about 3 weeks old till winter, when they come in at night. I find I spend alittle more in food this way (extra cals to handle the cold), but in the end it’s actually better for the horses. I cull older mares who might start to have health problems with this sort of lifestyle and I sell them VERY cheaply to “forever” homes.
I “shop” stallions & deals & stallion service auctions for the best “bang for my buck.” I do 90% of the labor around here myself and handle/train the babes myself as well.
Most of the time I make a profit – but it certainly isn’t a LIVING. I have to do something else for that. And more than once the vet fees, health issues, etc. have wiped even a modest profit, so I feel your pain.
But – and this is a BIG BUT – Here’s a fact that has been true for centuries – since horses were domesticated – and I’m really surprised modern day breeders don’t “get it.”
Horse breeding is EXPENSIVE!!! Horses are big, they need alot of room and they eat alot. They are (we assume) being raised/sold to actually DO something (as opposed to just being eaten, like other livestock, or be a companion, like a dog or cat), so that means there will be a higher number of culls.
If you look at every horse breeder or horse breeding culture (Native Americans, mongols, etc.) you will see one of two absolutes: upper-middle class to rich economic means or endless land (which turns into low feed bills).
You can be poor-ish and have lots of land (like the modern day cattle rancher) and raise horses and make a profit…lots of outfits around here manage. They simplify their husbandry tactics. They simply turn the stallion out with the mares, collect the foals for branding the next year, leave the foals out on mega pastures (100+ acres) with alittle extra hay, then start the youngsters themselves and use them on the ranch till they are seasoned. Then they sell them as “ranch geldings,” (or mares). There is a HUGE market for them out this way. They may sell for $2500-$12K as four year olds, but the rancher has produced 20 or more per year. AND he’s used his product to his own benefit + raised an even more profitable “product” – beef cows – on the land.
There are ranchers out here whose QH programs have been going for 20+ years and their foals are very well regarded as solid, good-minded, SOUND, sturdy mounts. Some of the breeders have introduced color (palomino, roan, buckskin) into their program as well. These horses are suited for rodeo, trail, team penning, ranch work and many of the QH show classes. So there is a big market for these kinds of horses.
Dressage and to a lesser degree, jumpers, is a much smaller, more elite market. More like racing TBs.
So those rancher guys probably make a profit.
The other class is the very wealthy or even those with plenty of disposable income. They may not have the land, but the $$$$$ makes up for it.
These days there are some of us in the middle, but make no mistake – horse breeding is expensive!! It is addictive and indulgent and wonderful at times, but it costs. You do it because you can’t NOT do it…that perfect foal is waiting just around the corner and YOU will be the one who produced it!!
But please – stop crying about losing money. That is a given and if you’d done your homework you’d know that horse breeding is not the most profitable biz in town…it’s not like THAT aspect is a big secret. No one is OBLIGATED to pay you a profit – it’s a free market! THAT is also a well-known part of the horse world. You are free to price your horse however you wish, and the buying public is free to PAY whatever they wish.
If you can’t afford it, don’t do it. Pretty simple, I’d say. Start seeing it as a VERY expensive hobby, and take what you can get while doing the best for the horses you produce. Enjoy the ride, and when you’re broke you can have many fond memories.
I sure will!!
I for one will NEVER breed another horse if I truly believed I would lose money. The very LEAST I expect is to break even with a savings account, and that is pretty much what I have done. My breeding “covers” the boarding fee of an empty stall in my boarding barn.
Let’s see a “show of hands”, would you keep breeding if you KNEW you would definitely lose money?
I vote no.
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