Tori Colvin annouced retirement of Way Cool, Inclusive, Canadian Blue, and Ovation

[JenEM]

[QUOTE=findeight;8387049]
I dunno about that. Dialogue L (think that was its name) had a rather fancy retirement from the Junior Hunters at Indoors one year. Much fanfare, lots of pictures of the ceremony in COTH.

Several years later, the last year I showed in the 50+ Adults, I was soundly beaten by Dialogue L and Bruce D. Several times.

So, it must not be etched in stone, be all, end all permanent. Or the C rated Adults don’t count as rated? Whatever, we may see some of these again down the road.[/QUOTE]

IIRC you can register a horse as “retired” so maybe that’s also a step in being unable to show again.

It seems very surprising that there wasn’t a big retirement ceremony for any of these four, but maybe they wanted to be able to show at all of the shows, and will do something next year?

[Single_Oxer]

@busylady;8386882

In that class, he won one class and DNP in 3 with Schaeffer.

He won a class out of 37 was second in another at an indoors show with Sam Schaefer*, this would be before the alleged “parrelli intervention” and it was her first time showing him. He was successful both before and after and also has other classes on his record where he DNPed. So the horse has been consistently brilliant and quirky with riders his entire career. To make any assumptions about his prep changing is just silly.

[DMK]

[QUOTE=harrisburgrules;8386927]
be careful. I hear they’re murderous monsters without extreme amounts of drugs…[/QUOTE]

It’s all good. We have a shortage of drug testers in the Appalachians!

[Cheryl]

[QUOTE=Single Oxer;8387073]
Yet people continue to talk about topics they know nothing about as if it is fact.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they do, however that’s not what I did. I asked a question.

Cheryl

[vxf111]

I’ve googled and I can’t find the article. Not all the COTH articles are outside the firewall and this was many years ago. I don’t know how far back COTH even has articles up-- I don’t see many older than 2011 and it’s possible this article was circa 2010 or such. That date actually seems kind of right to me. It’s driving me NUTS that I remember this article but can’t find it-- but I don’t think very many print articles from 2010 are online.

I have a vivid recollection of reading it in hard copy, I don’t know that I ever remember seeing the article online but I know it was a COTH article. I may be wrong about it being Tosh who she tried with the horse after she bought, it could have been Coluccio. It was some pro other than Stewart and some rider other than Colvin.

It makes sense that the article would be around the time BP bought the horse or soon thereafter. So that would be 2010ish and I am not seeing any articles online from that time period. Maybe there’s some way to get it from COTH but honestly I am not sure it’s worth the effort. You can believe me or not believe me. I’m not the only person who remembers the article.

Not that I think it matters much in the grand scheme of things since I mentioned it only in support of the fact that the horse seems pretty difficult and doesn’t seem to go as well outside the “team” and with the team-- both propositions that are pretty well supported by lots of other evidence.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8387149]
I’ve googled and I can’t find the article. Not all the COTH articles are outside the firewall and this was many years ago. I don’t know how far back COTH even has articles up-- I don’t see many older than 2011 and it’s possible this article was circa 2010 or such. That date actually seems kind of right to me. It’s driving me NUTS that I remember this article but can’t find it-- but I don’t think very many print articles from 2010 are online.

I have a vivid recollection of reading it in hard copy, I don’t know that I ever remember seeing the article online but I know it was a COTH article. I may be wrong about it being Tosh who she tried with the horse after she bought, it could have been Coluccio. It was some pro other than Stewart and some rider other than Colvin.

It makes sense that the article would be around the time BP bought the horse or soon thereafter. So that would be 2010ish and I am not seeing any articles online from that time period. Maybe there’s some way to get it from COTH but honestly I am not sure it’s worth the effort. You can believe me or not believe me. I’m not the only person who remembers the article.

Not that I think it matters much in the grand scheme of things since I mentioned it only in support of the fact that the horse seems pretty difficult and doesn’t seem to go as well outside the “team” and with the team-- both propositions that are pretty well supported by lots of other evidence.[/QUOTE]

Why don’t you contact COTH directly? They once found a photo for me that was in their 1999 issue but was from 1974 and the photographer was long dead. I think it is Sara Leiser I have to thank for that.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=BAC;8387178]
Why don’t you contact COTH directly? They once found a photo for me that was in their 1999 issue but was from 1974 and the photographer was long dead. I think it is Sara Leiser I have to thank for that.[/QUOTE]

I guess it’s not a matter of SUCH critical importance to me that I want to spend MORE hours tracking it down… but for sh*ts and giggles I’ll send them an email. Maybe it’s the kind of thing they can easily search for?

[vxf111]

I sent this email

<<Hi,

Sorry to bother you and if it’s a lot of trouble don’t bother… but we’re discussing the retirement of Inclusive, Ovation, Way Cool, and Canadian Blue in the H/J forum. I swear in and around 2010-2011, not long after Parker bought Way Cool, COTH did an article the gist of which was that the horse was very difficult, she took him out of Stewart’s program and tried lots of things (including another pro and natural horsemanship), none of it worked, so she sent him back for Colvin to ride and that was all he needed. I SWEAR I can recall reading this article with those details in the hard-copy Chronicle and I want to say it was 2010-2011ish. I have googled and googled and cannot find it online. Am I crazy or did such an article run? Is there any easy way to access it? Thanks.

~Veronica>>

Will post to the thread if I hear back.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8387149]
I’ve googled and I can’t find the article. Not all the COTH articles are outside the firewall and this was many years ago. I don’t know how far back COTH even has articles up-- I don’t see many older than 2011 and it’s possible this article was circa 2010 or such. That date actually seems kind of right to me. It’s driving me NUTS that I remember this article but can’t find it-- but I don’t think very many print articles from 2010 are online.

I have a vivid recollection of reading it in hard copy, I don’t know that I ever remember seeing the article online but I know it was a COTH article. I may be wrong about it being Tosh who she tried with the horse after she bought, it could have been Coluccio. It was some pro other than Stewart and some rider other than Colvin.

It makes sense that the article would be around the time BP bought the horse or soon thereafter. So that would be 2010ish and I am not seeing any articles online from that time period. Maybe there’s some way to get it from COTH but honestly I am not sure it’s worth the effort. You can believe me or not believe me. I’m not the only person who remembers the article.

Not that I think it matters much in the grand scheme of things since I mentioned it only in support of the fact that the horse seems pretty difficult and doesn’t seem to go as well outside the “team” and with the team-- both propositions that are pretty well supported by lots of other evidence.[/QUOTE]

Why don’t you contact COTH directly? They once found a photo for me that was in their 1999 issue but was from 1974 and the photographer was long dead. I think it is Sara Leiser I have to thank for that.

[sixteenhands]

[QUOTE=Darkwave;8387079]
Of course, this wouldn’t be the first time that someone broke a rule that they weren’t aware of or didn’t quite understand (see, e.g. the amateur rules).[/QUOTE]

Or maybe special permission was granted for Dialogue L to compete after retirement. Only part of the rule was posted above.

GR812 Retirement Ceremony

1. If a retirement ceremony is allowed at the request of the owner of a horse, that horse may not be permitted to compete at the competition. Any horse officially retired at a Licensed Competition is barred for life from further competition at Licensed Competitions except by special permission of the Board of Directors; however, they can continue to be shown in Academy classes, Leadline classes, Get of Sire and Produce of Dam classes.

[pepper1986]

This is basically what my earlier post said! Without the magical prep who knows how these guys REALLY ride and BP doesn’t want that found out! So what better way than to say, “These guys have proven all they need to and what wonderful exceptional horses they are and they deserve their well earned retirement!!”

Now I’m not saying they aren’t wonderful horses because they sure look like they are or that they don’t deserve their retirement. Because any and all horses deserve to be in a happy loving place in a field to roam and graze.

[QUOTE=vxf111;8386259]
I don’t think the scandal breaking is the magic tipping point. The tipping point is knowing that when VC ages out, if these horses pass along to another junior rider you probably lose the prep team. The loss of the prep team is the tipping point, not the public learning about the prep. Knowing that VC is aging out, that these are really more junior horses than pro horses, the choices were-- get another junior rider or sell them to be junior horses. Either options probably ends with them being unmasked for what I kind of suspect they are-- brilliant but difficult horses that need to be “prepped” to succeed.

I also don’t recall Canadian Blue being on the planned retirement list but my memory could be wrong.

Maybe I’m cynical. Maybe it’s just that all these horses deserve a grand retirement and BP can afford to do it so that’s what she’s doing. Except I can’t jibe that image of a benevolent horse lover with tube-and-prep-o-rama which we now know was SOP. Nor the decision to keep on keeping on with that “team” even after the SOP was umcovered. I just can’t square those things.

Not to mention… doesn’t BP have ponies that keep going and going and going? Why didn’t they get retired “on top” when VC aged out of ponies? Why don’t they get retired “on top” now? Hasn’t Cold Harbour won everything there is to win? Couldn’t you make the same argument that he’s retirement ready? Why don’t the pro horses get retired “on top?” It seems like the ONLY ones who are getting retired in a clump are VC’s junior hunters. That’s kind of an odd coincidence, no? Why not all her eq horses too?[/QUOTE]

[Horseperson112]

[QUOTE=pepper1986;8387211]
This is basically what my earlier post said! Without the magical prep who knows how these guys REALLY ride and BP doesn’t want that found out! So what better way than to say, “These guys have proven all the need to and what wonderful exceptional horses they are and they deserve their well earned retirement!!”[/QUOTE]

There’s not a lot of magic which goes into giving drugs - it’s not like chiro or acupuncture or, you know, the actual riding part, where there the majority of the process is a skill element - many, if not most, horse people can give an IV shot or insert paste into a horse’s mouth. After all these years, whatever chemical prep these horses get is probably pretty much set with a little tweaking here and there. As noted before, Rivers Edge did it well, Betsee’s personal trainers did it well, and Heritage did it well, so clearly it can be replicated (and I don’t buy that Brigid is the mastermind behind this all - I don’t think either Scott or Andre would put up with that.)

[Horseperson112]

[QUOTE=pepper1986;8387211]
This is basically what my earlier post said! Without the magical prep who knows how these guys REALLY ride and BP doesn’t want that found out! So what better way than to say, “These guys have proven all the need to and what wonderful exceptional horses they are and they deserve their well earned retirement!!”[/QUOTE]

There’s not a lot of magic which goes into giving drugs - it’s not like chiro or acupuncture or, you know, the actual riding part, where there the majority of the process is a skill element - many, if not most, horse people can give an IV shot or insert paste into a horse’s mouth. After all these years, whatever chemical prep these horses get is probably pretty much set with a little tweaking here and there. As noted before, Rivers Edge did it well, Betsee’s personal trainers did it well, and Heritage did it well, so clearly it can be replicated (and I don’t buy that Brigid is the mastermind behind this all - I don’t think either Scott or Andre would put up with that.)

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8386259]
I don’t think the scandal breaking is the magic tipping point. The tipping point is knowing that when VC ages out, if these horses pass along to another junior rider you probably lose the prep team. The loss of the prep team is the tipping point, not the public learning about the prep. Knowing that VC is aging out, that these are really more junior horses than pro horses, the choices were-- get another junior rider or sell them to be junior horses. Either options probably ends with them being unmasked for what I kind of suspect they are-- brilliant but difficult horses that need to be “prepped” to succeed.

I also don’t recall Canadian Blue being on the planned retirement list but my memory could be wrong.

Maybe I’m cynical. Maybe it’s just that all these horses deserve a grand retirement and BP can afford to do it so that’s what she’s doing. Except I can’t jibe that image of a benevolent horse lover with tube-and-prep-o-rama which we now know was SOP. Nor the decision to keep on keeping on with that “team” even after the SOP was umcovered. I just can’t square those things.

Not to mention… doesn’t BP have ponies that keep going and going and going? Why didn’t they get retired “on top” when VC aged out of ponies? Why don’t they get retired “on top” now? Hasn’t Cold Harbour won everything there is to win? Couldn’t you make the same argument that he’s retirement ready? Why don’t the pro horses get retired “on top?” It seems like the ONLY ones who are getting retired in a clump are VC’s junior hunters. That’s kind of an odd coincidence, no? Why not all her eq horses too?[/QUOTE]

No one can decide which of Betsee Parker’s horses are ready for retirement except for Betsee Parker. And she doesn’t even have to give a reason for her decisions. I don’t think Betsee owns any of the equitation horses that Tori has been riding - didn’t she lease all of them?

I do hope that COTH finds that article for you. After listening to the audio link that was posted, my guess is that you are right that she was talking about Rob Coluccio and not Hunt Tosh in reference to Way Cool.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8387261]
No one can decide which of Betsee Parker’s horses are ready for retirement except for Betsee Parker. And she doesn’t even have to give a reason for her decisions. I don’t think Betsee owns any of the equitation horses that Tori has been riding - didn’t she lease all of them?

I do hope that COTH finds that article for you. After listening to the audio link that was posted, my guess is that you are right that she was talking about Rob Coluccio and not Hunt Tosh in reference to Way Cool.[/QUOTE]

BP owns Clearway, doesn’t she? That’s VC’s top eq mount?! Patrick too. I dunno about the others

http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/behind-stall-door-clearway

It very well could have been that I mixed up Tosh and Coluccio. I remember it was a BNT and someone who she had a history of using. Could have very well been Coluccio.

[Midge]

[QUOTE=MHM;8386931]
We can cross that bridge when we come to it. Or stream, or bog, or what have you. :lol:[/QUOTE]

There’s no testing in trail riding. Run wild!

[BAC]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8387198]
I sent this email

<<Hi,

Sorry to bother you and if it’s a lot of trouble don’t bother… but we’re discussing the retirement of Inclusive, Ovation, Way Cool, and Canadian Blue in the H/J forum. I swear in and around 2010-2011, not long after Parker bought Way Cool, COTH did an article the gist of which was that the horse was very difficult, she took him out of Stewart’s program and tried lots of things (including another pro and natural horsemanship), none of it worked, so she sent him back for Colvin to ride and that was all he needed. I SWEAR I can recall reading this article with those details in the hard-copy Chronicle and I want to say it was 2010-2011ish. I have googled and googled and cannot find it online. Am I crazy or did such an article run? Is there any easy way to access it? Thanks.

~Veronica>>

Will post to the thread if I hear back.[/QUOTE]

I am curious what they find out, but I bet it is fairly easy for them to search. I think they advertise that you get five years of archives as a COTH subscriber so that article must be fairly accessible to them. It drives me crazy when I remember reading something and can’t locate it.

And I have no idea why I have duplicate posts, I need to try to delete one.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8387271]
BP owns Clearway, doesn’t she? That’s VC’s top eq mount?! Patrick too. I dunno about the others[/QUOTE]

I’m pretty sure they were all leased by Betsee for Tori, but I could be wrong. I’m almost completely positive that I remember reading that Clearway was a lease, and that made sense to me. I figured Andre wouldn’t let that one go permanently. He’s got too many equitation riders in his pipeline.

I also figured that Betsee is probably not all that interested in branching out into buying equitation horses, and that she was just doing it for Tori. But again, I could be wrong.

[Indy]

@vxf111;8387271

BP owns Clearway, doesn’t she? That’s VC’s top eq mount?! Patrick too. I dunno about the others

BP owns Clearway & Patrick. Avalanche’s owner is listed as Heritage and his show record for the year shows him being owned by Heritage, then by BP, and then Heritage/Andre so my guess is that BP leased him for Tori for part of the season and now he’s back with Heritage.

[BITSA]

[QUOTE=ynl063w;8387317]
I’m pretty sure they were all leased by Betsee for Tori, but I could be wrong. I’m almost completely positive that I remember reading that Clearway was a lease, and that made sense to me. I figured Andre wouldn’t let that one go permanently. He’s got too many equitation riders in his pipeline.

I also figured that Betsee is probably not all that interested in branching out into buying equitation horses, and that she was just doing it for Tori. But again, I could be wrong.[/QUOTE]

I thought Clearway was sold to BP last year so VC could ride him.

just double checked USEF Clearway is owned by BP