Tori is champion at talent search finals

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347037]
And, with all the winning she does, show after show, year after year, meaning she would get tested A LOT, isn’t it interesting, if that is her team’s program, that it isn’t caught until the end of her junior career? How is that possible? Could it be that the teams were, for the most part, pretty clean, and this debacle is not the norm for her horses. Because, to hear you all, and the tainted wins she must now have, all her horses must be on something the whole time.[/QUOTE]

It is entirely possible, just like in pro cycling, that they could have just been a step or two ahead of the testers.

[misssarahannie]

I find it strange that people who don’t know her personally are commenting on her emotional maturity. It is my understanding that Laurie knows her (correct me if I’m wrong) so I would take her word above all the others who see a good rider on the live feed and assume she’s got the emotional maturity of a 40 year old pro.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=HDuckie;8346019]
Well I am 19 years old. I know I’ve never been in the situations that Tori has been in but I do not consider myself as a child. I try to take responsibility for my actions. If my mount at a show were to be drugged (and I knew about it), got caught, and I were suspended, I would accept that punishment.
However, I don’t think I’d be in that situation first because I don’t agree with drugging, and second I cant ride at the moment due to health issues.

I’m not saying that Tori is an awful person or anything. I’m disgusted at the lack of action that the USEF has taken. I’m not naive and I do know that drugging is a common issue within all disciplines.
I just can’t believe that they were caught, all of the information came out, but nothing was done. How was this punishment? This is telling every other competitor “make sure not to sign as trainer! But GABA/drugging is ok, the horse and rider can still show!” It’s frustrating

I know I’m haven’t fully matured yet, and I do understand that I don’t have much experience in the horse world simply because of how many years I’ve been alive. I get it. But id probably get sick if someone were to defend me after screwing up by saying “She’s just a child, she doesn’t know any better!”[/QUOTE]

Something WAS done. The two trainers were suspended. One chose to use the courts to file suit, which is within her rights and at that point, the court rulings override the USEF until it all plays out. The stays are part of the process, and it would seem the judge thinks there is some merit, or took pity on the mother, who knows, but again, PART OF THE LEGAL PROCESS. But USEF did their thing already and handed down the punishments.

[Sticky_Situation]

I think a lot of the animosity toward Tori has to do with the fact that even though pretty much all the people involved in the situation admitted to at least knowing the horse was being “prepped”, not a single one has admitted that they may have had any responsibility or been in the wrong (other than seemingly Brigid Colvin regretting giving her name to the drug tester for that reason).

And as usual, the USEF has no teeth, those accused of wrongdoing have lawyered up, and the suspension has been stayed probably at least until after Tori finishes all her big stuff during her final Junior year, so if it ever ends up being served at all it will likely be at a much more convenient/less influential time.

And after the fact in similar cases, the USEF has historically been more than willing to play, “let’s just start over and pretend that never happened” even when the same person is a repeat offender.

So to see Tori out there continuing to win everything in sight, regardless of how talented a rider she is, just symbolizes the fact that nothing is on track to change significantly anytime soon and drugging will continue to be punished with nothing more severe than a minor slap on the wrist at the time most convenient for the Big Names involved.

However, if she is being allowed to compete, which is within the rules based on when the alleged drugging incident occurred, she should be judged only on her merits in the ring without making moral judgment on supposed prior incidents, and although I admittedly didn’t watch the talent search it sounds like she was the best rider that day.

[nutmeg]

Who is dishing out injectable GABA to begin with? Do they get it from a veterinarian or an online pharmacy? I doubt Brigid has gone all Breaking Bad in her tackroom. If I was king the injectable mag and GABA would be classified as a Class IV substance as far as veterinarians go so that every sale of it would be accounted for. Whack it at the source.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;8347068]

So to see Tori out there continuing to win everything in sight, regardless of how talented a rider she is, just symbolizes the fact that nothing is on track to change significantly anytime soon and drugging will continue to be punished with nothing more severe than a minor slap on the wrist at the time most convenient for the Big Names involved.

However, if she is being allowed to compete, which is within the rules based on when the alleged drugging incident occurred, she should be judged only on her merits in the ring without making moral judgment on supposed prior incidents, and although I admittedly didn’t watch the talent search it sounds like she was the best rider that day.[/QUOTE]

+1

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=misssarahannie;8347055]
I find it strange that people who don’t know her personally are commenting on her emotional maturity. It is my understanding that Laurie knows her (correct me if I’m wrong) so I would take her word above all the others who see a good rider on the live feed and assume she’s got the emotional maturity of a 40 year old pro.[/QUOTE]

I do, both in the show environment and through the GHM Horsemastership Clinic. I have also known Betsee since we were kids and rode together in MN. So I know the PERSON she is. Is she competitive and likes to win? Damn skippy. But is she a cheat and win at any cost person? Absolutely not. Tori blew me away the very first time I saw her ride (and I have worked for or been associated with the BEST we have ever had) and she has only gotten better, in my estimation. As with all things, there is more to it all, but not my business to share. But I will take on anyone who disparages this kid’s ability, or thinks she needs the “help.” She SO does not.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347113]
I do, both in the show environment and through the GHM Horsemastership Clinic. I have also known Betsee since we were kids and rode together in MN. So I know the PERSON she is. Is she competitive and likes to win? Damn skippy. But is she a cheat and win at any cost person? Absolutely not. Tori blew me away the very first time I saw her ride (and I have worked for or been associated with the BEST we have ever had) and she has only gotten better, in my estimation. As with all things, there is more to it all, but not my business to share. But I will take on anyone who disparages this kid’s ability, or thinks she needs the “help.” She SO does not.[/QUOTE]

If she doesn’t need the “help”, then explain why she does it or doesn’t stand up against those who are doing it.

[Midge]

@Sticky Situation;8347068

And as usual, the USEF has no teeth, those accused of wrongdoing have lawyered up, and the suspension has been stayed probably at least until after Tori finishes all her big stuff during her final Junior year, so if it ever ends up being served at all it will likely be at a much more convenient/less influential time.

Do you think they should not have a right to appeal? No ‘lawyering up’? Because it’s more important that she be punished at a time it would hurt the worst, regardless of whether she was actually the guilty party or not?

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Sticky Situation;8347068]
I think a lot of the animosity toward Tori has to do with the fact that even though pretty much all the people involved in the situation admitted to at least knowing the horse was being “prepped”, not a single one has admitted that they may have had any responsibility or been in the wrong (other than seemingly Brigid Colvin regretting giving her name to the drug tester for that reason).

And as usual, the USEF has no teeth, those accused of wrongdoing have lawyered up, and the suspension has been stayed probably at least until after Tori finishes all her big stuff during her final Junior year, so if it ever ends up being served at all it will likely be at a much more convenient/less influential time.

And after the fact in similar cases, the USEF has historically been more than willing to play, “let’s just start over and pretend that never happened” even when the same person is a repeat offender.

So to see Tori out there continuing to win everything in sight, regardless of how talented a rider she is, just symbolizes the fact that nothing is on track to change significantly anytime soon and drugging will continue to be punished with nothing more severe than a minor slap on the wrist at the time most convenient for the Big Names involved.

However, if she is being allowed to compete, which is within the rules based on when the alleged drugging incident occurred, she should be judged only on her merits in the ring without making moral judgment on supposed prior incidents, and although I admittedly didn’t watch the talent search it sounds like she was the best rider that day.[/QUOTE]

Apparently you do not know Tommy Serio’s punishment. Not only over the top in length, but takes out the entire winter circuit, but the summer as well. For a legitimate oops, documented, that was also partially USEF’s fault. They wouldn’t even grant him another hearing to present more evidence.

[sixteenhands]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8347014]
I’m sure a lot of people would agree with you on the part about her talent, but it is too bad that she was caught riding doped horses.[/QUOTE]

Caught riding doped horses or horse? I thought only one horse (Inclusive) came back with a positive drug test.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8347120]
If she doesn’t need the “help”, then explain why she does it or doesn’t stand up against those who are doing it.[/QUOTE]

And what, exactly, would you have her do, IF SHE KNEW?

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347140]
And what, exactly, would you have her do, IF SHE KNEW?[/QUOTE]

How about not avoiding the question?

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347018]
What no one here gets is that, left up to Tori, she prefers a little pep and has NO problem managing that. And still get a beautiful ride. And what exactly would you have get do, even if she knows, and I am not convinced that she does? Refuse to ride it? Stand up to the adults who are in charge? Part of her talent, and why she wins, is her supreme confidence in her abilities, and how horses react to her. Not an ego, just the way it has always been for her. So, in her mind, no need for any of this, so doesn’t expect it. Do you REALLY think it can’t be hidden from her? You all need to back off until it is Tori on the hot seat. And don’t hold your breath.[/QUOTE]

???

My post said that Tori is not to blame - her mother and trainer(s) are to blame.

And if she prefers a little pep, they why are the horses being given gaba and 9 tubes of perfect prep?

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8347147]
How about not avoiding the question? :)[/QUOTE]

I didn’t. I asked what exactly you would have her do? Give up her last junior year, all the great horses she has to ride, expect the ADULTS in charge to listen to her? I personally dont think she knew, so you tell me.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347163]
I didn’t. I asked what exactly you would have her do? Give up her last junior year, all the great horses she has to ride, expect the ADULTS in charge to listen to her? I personally dont think she knew, so you tell me.[/QUOTE]

I think you did.

If you read the transcripts from the hearing then reread the question here, let us know why you think Tori needs to be on a doped horse if she is really everything you said in your previous post.

[lauriep]

I DON’T think she does, and said so. That isn’t what you asked. You asked why she does ride drugged horses or why she doesn’t stand up to those who do it. I asked what YOU think she should do, since it is clearly chapping your ass, I threw out some scenarios, and then you asked what I thought. I don’t read minds, so cannot tell you the answers from her perspective.

[busylady]

[QUOTE=lauriep;8347113]
I do, both in the show environment and through the GHM Horsemastership Clinic. I have also known Betsee since we were kids and rode together in MN. So I know the PERSON she is. Is she competitive and likes to win? Damn skippy. But is she a cheat and win at any cost person? Absolutely not. Tori blew me away the very first time I saw her ride (and I have worked for or been associated with the BEST we have ever had) and she has only gotten better, in my estimation. As with all things, there is more to it all, but not my business to share. But I will take on anyone who disparages this kid’s ability, or thinks she needs the “help.” She SO does not.[/QUOTE]

Seems to me that prior to the July ruling, most most people on this board would have agreed with you and were pretty shocked to learn Tori’s ride was drugged. We all thought she was good enough to go clean (and were very disappointed to learn otherwise). So the people you need to take on are the ones giving her horse(s) the GABA. Clearly they thought she needed the help. And, based on the derby at Devon this year, yah, she did need some help with Inclusive. He didn’t perform beautifully for her as you say all horses do.

I hope Betsee is as you say she is. I also hope she will use her platform as the biggest of the BNO to take a stance on drugging and make some big changes in her program.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8347167]
I think you did.

If you read the transcripts from the hearing then reread the question here, let us know why you think Tori needs to be on a doped horse if she is really everything you said in your previous post.[/QUOTE]

lauriep stated she doesn’t think Tori knew about the doping, so how in the world is she supposed to answer your question of WHY she thinks Tori would need to be on a doped horse. For someone who thinks Tori didn’t know about the drugs, she was on a doped horse because the team behind her wanted her to be. Full stop.

Seriously, people who think Tori gets the rides and rounds she gets because the horses are doped are just being ridiculous. To prove it, I’m willing to stuff 9 tubes of PP down my mare’s throat (if she lets me, she gets upset at a tube of banamine and a tube of electrolytes) and quickly prove that I can still miss with great abandon at 2’3" and that miss mare will still object to my monkey riding…even after being perfectly prepped.

[ynl063w]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8347043]
Well, let’s not go THAT far. It could also be that they guessed correctly that USEF is using a threshold for GABA levels and they were careful to try to stay under it.[/QUOTE]

This was brought up a few weeks ago but I never asked the question. How would one go about determining what amount of GABA would produce the desired effect in a particular horse, without exceeding the USEF established limit? I would think it would require a whole lot of experimentation as well as access to a lab that was set up to determine levels of GABA in blood samples using the same assay that the USEF lab uses. I also don’t think it would be safe to assume that a dose that keeps one horse under the limit would be that way for all horses.

If the plan was to try different amounts at horse shows in a trial and error type scenario, I would have expected more than one positive result by now.