Triple Crown 2020

[snaffle1987]

@summerhorse

I keep wondering why someone of Baffert’s level would be giving illicit things to horses? Particularly one as talented as Charlaton or Nadal? Or maybe the timing was just off? I guess it depends on what it is. But certainly the people inside racing are doing a grand job of muddying the public’s view of it as a sport.

I am somewhat assuming things with this post because we don’t know what is being found in the blood sample; but we are watching it all come to light now; pretty much the one thing everyone suspected of the Baffert barn for years now.

Looks like a little miscalculation was given on when to administer vs when it shouldn’t test. And 2 horses from the same barn on the same day. It’s almost too good to be true.

It will be interesting to hear what comes of the split sample and what exactly is showing as positive.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@summerhorse

I keep wondering why someone of Baffert’s level would be giving illicit things to horses? Particularly one as talented as Charlaton or Nadal?

FWIW, still not confirmed and Nadal was not mentioned in connection with this.

[ASB_Stars]

So, where to move all of these horses next? :lol:

[LaurieB]

Sometimes you need to ponder how people got to that level in the first place.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@LaurieB

Sometimes you need to ponder how people got to that level in the first place.

I am most certainly ‘not in the know’… how big a reputation does Baffert have in this space? Or is his reputation among the more squeaky clean?

Asking honest as much as people are willing to divulge…

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

I am most certainly ‘not in the know’… how big a reputation does Baffert have in this space? Or is his reputation among the more squeaky clean?

Asking honest as much as people are willing to divulge…

He’s had a dubious reputation for awhile now. https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/121867/baffert-horses-big-part-of-sudden-death-spike

He was using Thyroxine on all of them https://www.drf.com/news/baffert-exonerated-california-horse-racing-board-equine-deaths

[skydy]

@dressagetraks

Will be very interested in the split sample results.

What I’ve wanted to know for a few months is why anyone would name a racehorse Charlatan?

Perhaps related to his Dam’s name, Authenticity, in an inverse fashion?

[Where_sMyWhite]

BTW that BH article is coming close to 9-10 years ago. IMO, many trainers did the Thyroxine band wagon (or seemed to me). Yeah, every once in a while I’ve heard/read an off-hand comment but is it really deserved.

I don’t know that I’d send my horse to him to be trained; there are other trainers I’d probably pick over BB. OTOH, if I’d just spent a big chunk of change on a real TC prospect, that’s where I might send horse.

Does he really, today, have a less than squeaky clean reputation? Is he on the Jerry Hollendorfer fast track?

Maybe my comment about not being my personal trainer of choice is the answer to my own question :lol:

[Where_sMyWhite]

BB is mixing it up… now saying that even before the positive test news leaked (did he know something?) there was a possibility that Charlatan would run in the Woody Stephens (G1) on the Belmont Stakes undercard, rather than the Belmont Stakes against Nadal. If Charlatan runs in the Wood Stephens, that would be most likely followed by by the Haskell (G1) on July 18 at Monmouth Park.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/241442/woody-stephens-becomes-a-possibility-for-charlatan

Let the fun and games continue :lol:

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

BTW that BH article is coming close to 9-10 years ago. IMO, many trainers did the Thyroxine band wagon (or seemed to me). Yeah, every once in a while I’ve heard/read an off-hand comment but is it really deserved.

I don’t know that I’d send my horse to him to be trained; there are other trainers I’d probably pick over BB. OTOH, if I’d just spent a big chunk of change on a real TC prospect, that’s where I might send horse.

Does he really, today, have a less than squeaky clean reputation? Is he on the Jerry Hollendorfer fast track?

Maybe my comment about not being my personal trainer of choice is the answer to my own question :lol:

Well yes. his reputation has not been “squeaky clean” since at least the decade or so ago when he was injecting every horse in the barn with thyroxine, and only stopped because the horses were dropping dead at an alarming rate, and people were noticing.

Any trainer willing to inject horses to gain what he thinks will be an advantage, instead of just training them, is not widely considered to be “clean”. But his horses often win, and some people who want to win very much, employ him.

[punchy]

NYT reported they tested positive for lidocaine:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/26/sports/horse-racing/charlatan-bob-baffert-doping.html

[Where_sMyWhite]

@punchy

NYT reported they tested positive for lidocaine:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/26/sports/horse-racing/charlatan-bob-baffert-doping.html

Yes, but NO. I’m not jumping on the defending BB bandwagon (and I am sure there are people who are already there) but

The undefeated Charlatan, as well as his stablemate Gamine, who also won on the May 2 racing card, tested positive for lidocaine, a local numbing agent, according to the person, who spoke Tuesday on the condition of anonymity because the case had not been fully adjudicated.

“Nothing has come before the commission yet — we do not have the facts,” Alex Lieblong, the chairman of the Arkansas Racing Commission, said. “When we get it, there will be no delaying tactics. Anything we can expedite, we will do.”

Media is stating ‘facts’ not yet in evidence. So far, only anonymous information which can’t be confirmed by process and which BB will not confirm (nor, if I was in his shoes even if this was true, I would confirm at this point).

Is it probably true? Yeah, but it isn’t confirmed and we don’t know, if it is lidocaine, why it was administered.

What happened to letting process play out as it should? Do I want to see this resolved in a timely manner and not months later like Justify, yes. All this unsubstantiated reporting annoys me to no end.

[punchy]

Media is stating what a source told them and accurately documenting that the facts are not before the commission yet. That’s not unsubstantiated. It’s accurate reporting of what is known now.

The process will play out. Would you rather have no reporting like with Justify? That worked out well.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@punchy

Media is stating what a source told them and accurately documenting that the facts are not before the commission yet. That’s not unsubstantiated. It’s accurate reporting of what is known now.

The process will play out. Would you rather have no reporting like with Justify? That worked out well.

What is ‘known’ now reported by sources who are anonymous.

The length of time with Justify was wrong. This with Charlatan is not, IMO, much better.

The sources won be named as they are violating confidentiality. They could be making something up or saying something that may end up being incorrect (as process hasn’t played out).

Would you feel the same about leaking around the confidentiality rules if the trainer was someone other than BB where this ‘leak’ could potentially negatively influence the trainer’s future business regardless of whether the testing and resulting investigation felt the trainer did nothing wrong??

[Where_sMyWhite]

FWIW, the current poll on Paulick Report’s web site asks

Contrary to current policy in most racing states, should positive drug tests be made public before split-sample confirmatory testing is completed??

Current just now, 56% No, 44% Yes.

Informal poll for sure but interesting to me the current response and feelings.

[LaurieB]

Condylar fracture for Nadal this morning at Santa Anita after a breeze.

He’s already had surgery and been retired.

[mommy_peanut]

Nadal is done
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/241451/unbeaten-nadal-retired-with-condylar-fracture

[skydy]

@LaurieB

Condylar fracture for Nadal this morning at Santa Anita after a breeze.

He’s already had surgery and been retired.

I hope he has an uneventful recovery from the surgery. He’s a chunk isn’t he?

That’s quite the x-ray. If you click on the horse’s name in the article it takes you to the before and after surgery x-rays.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Just saw this. He was a nice colt. Sure would have liked to see more of him on the track but glad this was caught when it was rather than something more catastrophic later.

Sounds like surgery was successful.

So, Charlatan (depending on pending investigation outcome) to the Belmont or the Woody Stephens?

[skydy]

I suppose it would have been “leaked” by now if Nadal was one of the Baffert trained horses that tested positive for lidocane. That’s something for Baffert to be thankful for anyway.