Triple Crown 2020

[halo]

Not surprised at all. Ive wondered how many would be left standing with the Derby in September. Nadal would be a tough horse to keep sound at any time, with his monstrous size.

[halo]

Not surprised at all. Ive wondered how many would be left standing with the Derby in September. Nadal would be a tough horse to keep sound at any time, with his monstrous size.

[halo]

duplicate

[Where_sMyWhite]

@skydy

I suppose it would have been “leaked” by now if Nadal was one of the Baffert trained horses that tested positive for lidocane. That’s something for Baffert to be thankful for anyway.

Baffert had 3 horses on the Arkansas Derby day card. Charlatan, Nadal and Gamine. I believe the leaked implied horses from the first round of leaked test results were Charlatan and Gamine.

But, nothing official has been released.

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

Baffert had 3 horses on the Arkansas Derby day card. Charlatan, Nadal and Gamine. I believe the leaked implied horses from the first round of leaked test results were Charlatan and Gamine.

But, nothing official has been released.

Yes, and that’s why in my post, leaked was in quotes.

[snaffle1987]

Sad to hear about Nadal. But hes off to stud to go sire more potential unsound horses… (sarcasm)

[findeight]

Well, then, dont consider him for your brood mares and tell your trainers and agents not to bid on any of his yearlings when they come up in a few years. Vote with your feet and wallet.

[LaurieB]

The sad thing about Nadal is that when you look at his pedigree, potentially he should have been the poster boy for soundness.

But when you have connections who insist that every talented horse they own/train–regardless of size, weight, or maturity–must be pointed toward the Kentucky Derby, something’s gotta give. It’s a shame because he probably would have made a terrific 4 year old.

[danceronice]

@skydy

Well yes. his reputation has not been “squeaky clean” since at least the decade or so ago when he was injecting every horse in the barn with thyroxine, and only stopped because the horses were dropping dead at an alarming rate, and people were noticing.

Any trainer willing to inject horses to gain what he thinks will be an advantage, instead of just training them, is not widely considered to be “clean”. But his horses often win, and some people who want to win very much, employ him.

When I was on vacation a few years back I was on the train in Canada, and the folks seated with me at lunch noticed I was reading about horse racing. We got on the subject (at the time I was partners on a two-year-old who was doing quite well) and they had been familiar with BB when he was racing Quarter Horses (didn’t have anyone with him but were at the same track.) They did not have flattering things to say and expressed an opinion that a lot of needles were involved at his barn at the time, and did not have high hopes he would have changed tactics when he changed breeds. This would have been six or seven years ago and taking about more than a decade before that. He’s had a rep forever.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@LaurieB

But when you have connections who insist that every talented horse they own/train–regardless of size, weight, or maturity–must be pointed toward the Kentucky Derby, something’s gotta give. It’s a shame because he probably would have made a terrific 4 year old.

I would agree that Nadal would have continued to mature into a very nice older horse.

Again back to the BB and his past reputation whether deserved or not. There are owners who want their horse in the KD or TC or BC. Those owners potential spend $$$$ to get colts with good potential (I know, all of those races have been won by bargain horses that didn’t come through KeeSep) and want a trainer with experience and a track record at winning those big races. Yup, pressure and something has to give; at least for Nadal, caught before it became catastrophic because it sure could have ended much worse than retirement. The pressure might shift if all 3 TC races were later in the season permanently… yeah, it would change the TC but it also would relieve some of the physical pressure on some of these colts to perform at a high level earlier than they are physically ready to.

When you really want that TC trophy on your mantle, you do everything you can to stack the deck in your favor and then hope for the best.

As for implying that Nadal, because of this fracture, will produce future unsound horses… I just consider the source :lol:

[Where_sMyWhite]

A late comment on BB (and thank everyone for their thoughts…)

If BB is that big a problem, he will continue to be a problem until he gets banned off some tracks a la Hollendorfer.

Mud slinging, innuendo and occasional suspensions won’t keep owners from drinking the Koolaid until they can’t.

[punchy]

To say that Baffert “caught [Nadal’s injury] before it became catastrophic” is a bit disingenuous. When a horse comes back lame after a work you better notice. It’s not like you get extra points and a pat on the back for noticing a lame horse. Rather, Baffert got extraordinarily lucky; we all got lucky that horse didn’t go down on the track and require euthinization.

[LaurieB]

@punchy

To say that Baffert “caught [Nadal’s injury] before it became catastrophic” is a bit disingenuous. When a horse comes back lame after a work you better notice. It’s not like you get extra points and a pat on the back for noticing a lame horse. Rather, Baffert got extraordinarily lucky; we all got lucky that horse didn’t go down on the track and require euthinization.

Indeed.

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

Just saw this. He was a nice colt. Sure would have liked to see more of him on the track but glad this was caught when it was rather than something more catastrophic later.

Sounds like surgery was successful.

So, Charlatan (depending on pending investigation outcome) to the Belmont or the Woody Stephens?

The injury was not “caught”. He had a non-displaced condylar fracture. He could have broken down completely.
No one had any control over the severity his fracture. They were lucky.

He’s a heavy horse that could (as @LaurieB mentioned) have been given some time. This type of injury heals fairly well and relatively quickly so there is less risk of laminitis during recovery, but it is always a concern.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@skydy

The injury was not “caught”. He had a non-displaced condylar fracture. He could have broken down completely.
No one had any control over the severity his fracture. They were lucky.

‘Caught’ to me was someone noticing there was a problem and doing something about it. Not sure why my choice of words is causing such heartburn. Horse came back from the morning work ‘a little off’. Did diagnostics and discovered the beginnings of a fracture. Sure, Nadal could have had a catastrophic displacement but he didn’t; yes, some luck involved. Horses, to the best of my knowledge, don’t receive regular x-rays before going to the track.

For me “lame” is not the same as ‘little off’. shrug.

Would you all have been happier if I’d not implied that BB was the individual that ‘caught’ the little off?

:rolleyes:

[skydy]

No, I just thought the trainer’s characterization of the horse being a “little off” was minimizing it, but it sounds better than saying “lame”.
The fracture is clear on the x-ray. It’s not the “beginning of a fracture” It’s a non-displaced fracture, but again, the “beginning of a fracture” sounds better.

It’s no biggie.

[ASB_Stars]

Frightening to think how many strides were between this outcome and a disaster.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Assuming that Nadal did not appear to be off prior to his work and that he did pass through whatever pre-work health checks SA/TSG have in place, nobody knew there was an impending problem. I would have to believe (perhaps incorrectly) that if the exercise rider felt anything during the work, Nadal would have been pulled up immediately.

We don’t know the state of his LF prior to the work; I’d be thinking if there was an existing x-ray that showed early signs of the impending fracture the the media would have snapped that gem up.

Being ‘off’ after the work with subsequent diagnostics showing the condylar fracture, yes, very lucky that there was not a catastrophic result. IMO irrelevant whether the fracture was ‘beginning’ vs ‘non-displaced’ and just semantics.

Horse showed symptoms of soreness after work, horse x-rayed, non-displaced fracture diagnosed, surgery successful, horse retired to stud career. A good outcome that could have ended up much worse. All the frilly words that have been said are just that, frilly words.

[skydy]

@Where'sMyWhite

Assuming that Nadal did not appear to be off prior to his work and that he did pass through whatever pre-work health checks SA/TSG have in place, nobody knew there was an impending problem. I would have to believe (perhaps incorrectly) that if the exercise rider felt anything during the work, Nadal would have been pulled up immediately.

We don’t know the state of his LF prior to the work; I’d be thinking if there was an existing x-ray that showed early signs of the impending fracture the the media would have snapped that gem up.

Being ‘off’ after the work with subsequent diagnostics showing the condylar fracture, yes, very lucky that there was not a catastrophic result. IMO irrelevant whether the fracture was ‘beginning’ vs ‘non-displaced’ and just semantics.

Horse showed symptoms of soreness after work, horse x-rayed, non-displaced fracture diagnosed, surgery successful, horse retired to stud career. A good outcome that could have ended up much worse. All the frilly words that have been said are just that, frilly words.

I’ve not seen it suggested anywhere that he went into the breeze lame or that his connections knew of any pre-existing issues.

Of course any jockey or exercise rider would have pulled up a lame horse if they had the chance, but it is not that simple. Horses can break down before the rider can feel any abnormality. It can and does happen in an instant.

It is also true that a horse that is breezing/working or racing can injure themselves and because of the adrenaline produced while running, the injury becomes apparent only after the breeze/work/race. That seems to be the case in this instance.

Many people that participate in sports have experienced this. More than once, I’ve injured myself and have not realized the extent of the injury until after the adrenaline had worn off :yes: and horses are stoic animals.

I don’t see the fudging of medical terms as “semantics”. A fracture is a fracture, not the “beginning of a fracture”. It is present on the x-ray. I do understand why the trainer minimized the language used to describe the injury, considering the bad press racing has had lately.

Not every owner aims their horses for the derby before the horse is ready. There are many good owners and trainers who know when a horse needs time, and they train accordingly.

[skydy]

@ASB Stars

Frightening to think how many strides were between this outcome and a disaster.

Yes. It’s a lucky outcome for sure, so far, and he will have the best veterinary care available to him.
I can only imagine the relief his connections must feel. :yes: