UPDATE Page 10 (I know you're all waiting by your keyboards to respond!) (I jest.) (Kind of.) Barn worker taking things - what would your expectation be of the Barn regarding consequences?

[lenapesadie]

@paw

Um, no. It is stealing if you appropriate something that does not belong to you. I frankly hope that you have more moral sense than you are exhibiting with your statement here.

Actually there is some precedence for it to not be stealing. If I leave my keys in my vehicle and it it gets taken, my auto insurance will not cover my loss. It will be my fault for leaving the keys in it. That’s industry standard.

[Nickelodian]

@lenapesadie

Actually there is some precedence for it to not be stealing. If I leave my keys in my vehicle and it it gets taken, my auto insurance will not cover my loss. It will be my fault for leaving the keys in it. That’s industry standard.

That is a for-profit entity declaring their level of standard. The law OTOH will still prosecute this as stealing.

[lenapesadie]

@Nickelodian

That is a for-profit entity declaring their level of standard. The law OTOH will still prosecute this as stealing.

Your barn owner is a for profit entity too, presumably. Perhaps that’s why she isn’t aggressively acting on your complaints?

You could conceivably file a police report though regarding your still missing martingale

[Nickelodian]

@Pennywell Bay

Nik- I am wondering if any other boarders had an issue (hard to ask at risk of being a pot stirrer). A light hearted " Anyone missing anything lately?" No details. Some can do it (I have that gift of self deprecation " Oh goodness. I keep leaving my stuff out and it walks away. I need a radio tracking collar on my things."

Did you say how old this person was?

So to me- I’d be annoyed no doubt. I don’t know if she is a “thief” but

• person doesn’t have real good set boundaries
• she’s one of those people who just thinks if it is loose- it is up for grabs
• heck just think I described a their

Totally not excusing it. I just think - yes you have a right to be annoyed. You talked to the BO and go a tepid response. Make a mental note and enjoy your barn, horses and kid. Try not to let it get under your skin and watch your stuff.

As a working parent (my kid is older than yours but still) who is used to being remote but dealing with Covid, craziness, lack of horse shows, I GET needing to vent. Sorry some people are being douchebags, maybe they need a meds refill.

You’re prob a great client (hey- all clients get annoying anyway at some point), the BO/BM probably has a lot going on to deal with (much like yourself/myself etc). I doubt they did not take it seriously- perhaps it is on a backburner.

PS- you may regret getting kiddo a pony. Not only does mine now ride her ponies, she has stolen my BWP mare for lessons. Be careful what you wish for ba ha ha.

She’s in her early-mid 20s I would guess. I have heard of other things gone missing, but honestly don’t want to get in the middle.

I think what bothers me is that the first offense I firmly set boundaries. The BO Did as well. It’s not like my expectations were unknown (or her boss’s). I honestly haven’t had a chance to chat with BO on what her follow up looked like for the second offense. I wouldn’t say it was tepid yet. I came here because it’s a strange situation. A vest? Some gloves? Eh not a big deal. A repeat offense when the behavior was already noted? That’s a bigger problem to me. Again. If two things go missing (left out or not), what else would she help herself to?

I will be just fine if my kiddo wants to steal my horses. He sits the trot better than me already anyway. Lol

[Nickelodian]

@lenapesadie

Your barn owner is a for profit entity too, presumably. Perhaps that’s why she isn’t aggressively acting on your complaints?

You could conceivably file a police report though regarding your still missing martingale

I wasn’t setting your statement in context of my barn owner. You said it’s not stealing a CAR because of insurance. In the eyes of the law it is.

[Nickelodian]

@Backstage

I certainly understand why the OP is upset, especially given that the gloves were in the employee’s box and that she seemed to be avoiding the OP while wearing the vest.

But the trickier issue is what is expected of the BO. Even OP admits that she isn’t sure what she wants done in the circumstances. The BO may well be struggling with the same question. She has an employee that does all of her job duties without significant issue (that we are aware of), but for two instance of wearing forgotten items. If there was evidence of theft, the decision would be more clear cut. But BO likely has been given an explanation by the employee that chalks the issue up to inadvertence/convenience not malicious intent. Or she may feel that the OP is overreacting.

But even if the BO doesn’t quite buy the explanation, do we expect her to be firing someone for these two minor incidents? To take the chance on a new employee who may be worse and/or not able to perform all the substantive aspect of the job? That strikes me as extreme.

Something less than firing? Quite possibly, but I’m not sure the OP or the other boarders are entitled to the details. Employee may well be on a three strikes and you are out plan, but it wouldn’t be fair, IMO, to broadcast that to the entire barn.

So, my answer to the OP’s questions is ultimately that I would expect my BO to treat my concerns seriously, and indicate she was going to deal with it. Ideally also an apology from the employee, and confirmation that the employee has been instructed to place the forgotten items in the lost and found.

THANK YOU for actually responding to my question. I feel lost on what I should expect. A gloves and a vest are not a huge deal. But what that behavior leads to might be.

And she was given notice the first time. And still did it the second time.

[mvp]

So much ado about nothing.

If I were the BO, I’d come down hard on an employee who was giving my customers the perception of stealing.

But I’d also be clear to my adult, competent-enough-to-earn-enough-to-own-horses customers that they bore some responsibility for their stuff that walked if they left it out.

No one is responsible for picking up after for someone who is clearly capable of doing that for herself. If an employee takes up the slack and puts the boarder’s forgotten item back in their trunk or locker, they are doing that boarder a favor. If you won’t expect someone to pick up after you at your real job, you should not expect that kind of house-keeping help at the barn. I would tell you so. And if you were a considerate and careful consumer of boarding, you most likely would have have inferred that this barn’s equipment was put away and organized because it looks that way. I have been a professional groom so, believe me, this comes naturally. But I have been a boarders for a long time, too. I know how to gather the vibe of the barn and adjust myself to it.

This is not the case of “the customer is always right” and the BO’s finger ought to wag only in one direction. As the BO who has been asked to adjudicate here, I’d expect both adults-- employee and boarder-- to take care of their respective responsibilities. Don’t make me have to tell you that; it will sound condescending. But if you stole or left stuff out to be borrowed or stolen, you will have earned the talking-to you got. You could easily head that off at the pass by not breaking the known and common-sense rules about how to share space with other people.

[Nickelodian]

@Farosh

For a wallet or phone I would make an effort to get it back to someone, for your $20 gloves you carelessly littered my barn isle with, meh. They are not the same. Stop pretending they are. It only shows how warped your perspective is.

Like I said I put all things left out with the lesson stuff and this is common knowledge so people usually find their stuff anyway. I’ve yet to have any complaints. Sweatshirts and things like that that don’t get claimed become free stuff.

People like me disgust you lol 👌 you really like to grandstand. Ok, Karen.

So where is your value limit on what you take vs what you put in the lost and found? You seem to love to throw around the (derogatory) Karen term, so please enlighten us on what is and what is not Karen behavior. You didn’t respond to whether or not my horse and his tack was free game since I left him out. So I’m assuming he’s worth enough to put back in his place.

I really do want to know what you consider your limit as “free stuff.”

[Nickelodian]

@mvp

So much ado about nothing.

If I were the BO, I’d come down hard on an employee who was giving my customers the perception of stealing.

But I’d also be clear to my adult, competent-enough-to-earn-enough-to-own-horses customers that they bore some responsibility for their stuff that walked if they left it out.

No one is responsible for picking up after for someone who is clearly capable of doing that for herself. If an employee takes up the slack and puts the boarder’s forgotten item back in their trunk or locker, they are doing that boarder a favor. If you won’t expect someone to pick up after you at your real job, you should not expect that kind of house-keeping help at the barn. I would tell you so. And if you were a considerate and careful consumer of boarding, you most likely would have have inferred that this barn’s equipment was put away and organized because it looks that way. I have been a professional groom so, believe me, this comes naturally. But I have been a boarders for a long time, too. I know how to gather the vibe of the barn and adjust myself to it.

This is not the case of “the customer is always right” and the BO’s finger ought to wag only in one direction. As the BO who has been asked to adjudicate here, I’d expect both adults-- employee and boarder-- to take care of their respective responsibilities. Don’t make me have to tell you that; it will sound condescending. But if you stole or left stuff out to be borrowed or stolen, you will have earned the talking-to you got. You could easily head that off at the pass by not breaking the known and common-sense rules about how to share space with other people.

So as the supposed barn owner, you told your employee to put things they found in to the lost and found when an item was discovered in the employee’s possession. Then, due to extenuating circumstances (a fall) a second item was left out and was also discovered in the employees possession (after she had been told what the policy/expectation was), what would you do?

[MHM]

@Nickelodian

She’s in her early-mid 20s I would guess. I have heard of other things gone missing, but honestly don’t want to get in the middle.

It sounds to me like it might be time to get in the middle a little bit. If you have had two things go missing that turned out to be in her possession, and everybody else in the barn has had a similar experience, that adds up to a lot of theft. But if nobody is comparing notes on it, it might be slipping by under the radar. The barn owner might be more inclined to take it seriously if 5/10/20/30 boarders get together to express their dissatisfaction with the current situation.

I would also be raising the roof about the missing martingale, which was not left out. No gray area on that one.

Twice in the last few months, I found a credit card on the ground in a parking lot. Both times, I picked it up and called the credit card company to notify them of the lost card so they could cancel the card and send the person a new one. It never occurred to me that I could have gone on a shopping spree since obviously the cards were left out in an irresponsible way. :rolleyes:

[kande04]

@inca

Not that it changes a thing, but I think the vest is a normal piece of outerwear you wear in lieu of a coat. Not a protective vest like you wear cross country.

But this thread has officially jumped the shark, gone off the rails, etc. Lol

That could actually be significant information, because I’d be much more concerned about someone taking my expensive protective vest than I would my ordinary vest (that someone probably gave me because I never buy expensive clothes).

[Linny]

Last week while walking in the woods near my house I found $5 on the ground. I hadn’t seen a soul on the path and since the $ was soggy and the day was dry, I guessed that it had been there for a while. I took it. Had the $ been on a barnmates trunk I assume it belongs to them and leave it. If I leave my spurs with my initials on them in front of my horse’s stall by accident, I don’t want to find them in the possession of a barn employee. There are plenty of options (put in my trunk, hang on hook on stall door, put in stall bag on door, put in lost and found, ask barnmate or BO to text me) none of which assume that I left them for anyone to take. We all try to clean up after ourselves but I don’t know anyone who has NEVER left something out at the barn.

The core issue appears to be that of 4 things that have gone missing, Nic has found 2 in the possession of employee, the second AFTER employee was spoken to. That would make me wonder if she had taken my other items.

I’m not sure what the BO’s options are. She should reinforce the prior requests that items left out be put in lost and found or owners storage area if known. If other clients have commented on their things going missing and turning up with employee, maybe BO is considering options. Terminating an employee and be difficult in some states and she could run the risk of getting someone worse.

[Ghazzu]

@Farosh

It’s not stealing if you leave something out in a public space.

Nonsense.

[lenapesadie]

@Nickelodian

I wasn’t setting your statement in context of my barn owner. You said it’s not stealing a CAR because of insurance. In the eyes of the law it is.

Right, from the insurance perspective it wasn’t stolen. I never said it excused legal liability.

I don’t blame you for being upset about your things. But from a busy BO/BM perspective, perhaps the issue is your things were left out therefore not stolen. That and confronting the help. That’s been a no no at every barn I’ve been at.

[MHM]

@Linny

I’m not sure what the BO’s options are. She should reinforce the prior requests that items left out be put in lost and found or owners storage area if known. If other clients have commented on their things going missing and turning up with employee, maybe BO is considering options. Terminating an employee and be difficult in some states and she could run the risk of getting someone worse.

I have never noticed anybody in the horse business who had much trouble terminating an employee.

[meupatdoes]

@Nickelodian

As this statement is particularly inflammatory. I didn’t accuse anyone of stealing from me. I found things that I owned in possession of someone else. …

SERIOUSLY.
You are not in the wrong here.

It’s not even about dollar value. Even inexpensive things aren’t up for grabs. I am the kind of person that keeps things for years and years and takes good care of them rather than buying new all the time.

I left a thermos at Cornell once when a horse had to go in for diagnostics. When I realized I left it, I called them and they graciously found it and mailed it back to me. I still have this thermos; I have had for years at this point.

I once lent a pair of spurs to people who came to try a horse. At the end of the day they had trouble locating the second one. How did I manage to keep the same set of spurs for literally 15 years and they almost lose them in one afternoon?

I leased a horse out once and sent him with a monogrammed baker blanket. When the person decided to purchase the horse I said yay and asked for my monogrammed blanket back. She did not give it back because she had RIPPED MY MONOGRAM OFF WITH A SEAM RIPPER AND REPLACED IT WITH HER OWN. She did not replace the blanket either.

I don’t know wtf possesses people some times. It is years later and I sold that horse in the upper fives so monetarily I did just fine in that transaction but I will be bitter about that years old, beautifully maintained monogrammed blanket which my horse wore throughout his time with me until the day I die.

If my friends see one hung out on the aisle somewhere they are like oh god, a baker blanket, don’t let her see it, and go into covert operations to conceal it so we (or more accurately, they) don’t have to all relive the trauma.

If I saw someone parading down the very same aisle they KNEW I was going to show up to because I BOARD THERE, I don’t even know what.

[atl_hunter]

I am sad that “lost and found” is lost on so many people on here. My workplace has one. The airport has one. Every store has one. Every barn I have ever been involved with has some variation of this. Shows have one, too. I found an iPhone 11 Pro on the ground at the last show and made sure to give it to the office where it was reunited with its owner. It’s the right thing to do and I would hope someone would kindly do the same for me.

This industry is struggling as it is. I can’t imagine throwing away or giving away a customer’s item because it was accidentally left out. What is so hard about putting it in a designated spot? I wish I was as perfect as so many people on this thread who never ever lose anything. I wish them luck as they age since hormonal changes aren’t always so kind to women’s memories.

I think it’s sad that the OP had an accident and that the barn mates and trainer didn’t help make sure her things were put away until her return. When I fell off my horse and fractured my ribs and sternum, my barn family and trainer took care of everything for me and made sure all my things were put away. My crop was overlooked but it it was in the lost and found tub when I returned 4 weeks later.

Nic, I would also be upset and I would meet with the BM/BO/Trainer/whomever is in charge and I would express that times are tough, people are stressed, and mistakes happen. Begin by owning your part i.e. “I realize I left these items out…” Speak factually and not emotionally.

I would verify what the policy is for lost or left items. If there isn’t one, ask if it’s possible to add a lost and found. “As you know “Gretchen the groom” ended up with my vest after my fall, and recently she was wearing my one of a kind gloves. I’m also now missing my martingale and my concern is that this is a recurring issue. Perhaps it’s a misunderstanding so it would be great if it would be possible to establish a more formal policy moving forward that is formally communicated to everyone.

Most professionals in this sport choose this type of work because they enjoy working with horses. They are not always the best managers of people, and for many dealing with the people aspect is their least favorite part. I’ve always found it helpful to use facts and to come to the table with a negotiating mindset and a potential solution rather than just a complaint. you might find they appreciate the help figuring out a solution.

Also, monograms and labels are your friend!

[enjoytheride]

@lenapesadie

Actually there is some precedence for it to not be stealing. If I leave my keys in my vehicle and it it gets taken, my auto insurance will not cover my loss. It will be my fault for leaving the keys in it. That’s industry standard.

This just doesn’t make any sense at all. Are you aware of the definition of stealing? Even if you left your keys in the ignition with the doors open and the engine running, it’s still STEALING. There is ZERO precedence for it to not be stealing.

Your insurance company that you’ve paid money to every month for years denying your claim is another issue entirely.

[enjoytheride]

@lenapesadie

Right, from the insurance perspective it wasn’t stolen. I never said it excused legal liability.

I don’t blame you for being upset about your things. But from a busy BO/BM perspective, perhaps the issue is your things were left out therefore not stolen. That and confronting the help. That’s been a no no at every barn I’ve been at.

No, from an insurance perspective it was stolen. Period. Again, your insurance denying payment is another issue, one of which I’ve never actually heard of. Her items were left out (her fault) and STOLEN. Period. End of story.

[FitzE]

The issue with insurance is that they are always looking to minimize any payout to you. If you leave your running car unattended they point to contributory negligence on your part in order to reduce their payout. It in no way means they think it wasn’t theft; it is solely to reduce the payout.

OP - what did the barn worker say when you confronted her while she was wearing your vest?