[QUOTE=lmlacross;8709305]
They had to do the classic. I mean, he needed to school. :no:
I’m really interested in how any subsequent conversations with this trainer go down. You’ve been offered up some pretty ridiculous justifications.[/QUOTE]
They probably should have flown it to Europe just to really make sure.
[QUOTE=CrankyHorse12;8708805]
I think so–it was a condition of the lease–the horse had a few previous issues I was not willing to cover so we decided that we’d handle vet bills in this way. But I pay a lease fee, full board, and shoes.
I’m fine with daycare fees, so that part is okay, but I didn’t receive the full service I paid for with the grooming charges (getting the horse tacked up and to the ring).
Amongst the show-related fees, what really gets me are the “training” rides–there were a number of capable people who could have hacked him for free if he was stuck there and not showing.[/QUOTE]
But here’s where this is a problem. Horse should have gone home!
You would be on the hook for the stall (time frame you had signed up for) classes that were not scratched within a certain time frame and an additional trailering fee to send horse home by himself etc.
But since the horse stayed because someone else wanted to show him “ALL” other charges should be the cost of the person that held the horse at the show. INCLUDING ride fees. No one needed to hack him. This could have taken place at home which you are probably already paying for in your monthly training bill.
I have sent a horse home early from a show due to an injury with a BNT barn and was not charged additionally as you were.
Cranky Horse, I am sorry that this is such a sucky situation for you, but if you look on the bright side, you are probably one of very few posters in this type of situation who actually got a unanimious COTH opinion and everyone is on your side 
Cheers to that, and to you taking what ever steps you decide are right for you, and to that sketchy trainer learning a things or two from this as well :yes:
[QUOTE=CrankyHorse12;8708997]
My bill was paid at the end of the show when all was said and done–the secretary had a blank check, which got sent with the initial entry. So the prize money absolutely could have gone toward my horse’s bill. Barn-related checks for training, grooming, etc. were written out for me by the friend I sent over.
Plus, let’s say that I had paid the entire bill before the prize money got factored in. So what? If the prize money is meant to go to the horse, then trainer could have simply given it to me.
I’m so angry with this whole thing and the worst part is I love this horse and don’t want to stop riding him, but can’t see how I can continue to work with this owner/trainer.[/QUOTE]
I feel so bad for you. It’s hard when you are just loving the horse. I think you need to have a sit down with the trainer… be sincere and just tell her how you feel. Come up with a written agreement you can both be happy with. And of course heal quickly so you can go ride 
[QUOTE=CrankyHorse12;8709293]
Was a classic so they braided…[/QUOTE]
So not only did you not get to show the horse you pay for; but someone else showed him, charged you for braiding, grooming and riding and kept the prize money the horse won?
I am changing my mind on sitting down with this trainer after reading all this. I still feel bad for you. You seem like a very nice person. I think you have a lot of really solid advice that you can stand on solid ground.
[QUOTE=doublesstable;8709404]
So not only did you not get to show the horse you pay for; but someone else showed him, charged you for braiding, grooming and riding and kept the prize money the horse won?
I am changing my mind on sitting down with this trainer after reading all this. I still feel bad for you. You seem like a very nice person. I think you have a lot of really solid advice that you can stand on solid ground.[/QUOTE]
Basically. I emailed trainer today re: braiding and told her I wanted to be reimbursed by other rider. She said she would ask other rider to leave me a check. What do you suppose the odds of that happening are?
Otherwise, I paid for ALL of the costs with the exception of two days of training when other rider showed, and the braiding (IF I get reimbursed). And yes, other rider walked off with the prize money. None of it went toward horse’s (my) bill.
Not enough. What everyone else has said. You need to sit down with the trainer and go over that bill line by line and know what you need to be credited for and so that trainer knows you are serious. And truthfully, you should walk away from the lease — the trainer is a thief.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;8709374]
They probably should have flown it to Europe just to really make sure.[/QUOTE]
They probably should have gotten Greg Best out of retirement to ride it. You know, because it sidestepped at the mounting block and many a horse has been RUINED by not nipping that in the bud with expensive showing!
I would also suggest that you tape the entire conversation and let trainer know you are taping. Have a recorder on, either on your phone or on a recorder. Do it right in front of her and this will deter her from using maniptulation to get her way. Plus if it needs to go to court, you have a tape.
I think you need to cut your losses and walk. You might win the fight on this one, but I don’t see how you can proceed with this trainer knowing she will use you to fund her in making her horse more valuable. She has a conflict of interest between you and the horse and has made it very clear which she prioritises. Even if you can live with constantly double checking your bill and getting every little agreement in writing, riding is a risk sport and you want your trainer focuses on improving your skills and nurturing your confidence. I see a future of you being encouraged to enter bigger, more expensive classes before it is right for you because it looks good for her. I see the excuses for why you should let someone else with more experience ride in championships that you qualify for. Your confidence will be puffed up and ground down as it suits her to make the horse/ her barn more valuable and keep you happy to foot the bill. Even if she’s being genuinely encouraging for the right reasons you will have reason to doubt her, and if she’s trying to give you confidence to try something different it’s important for you not to have that little voice in the back of your mind.!
I would be using your down time to learn how to braid.
I cannot understand people paying for a horse to be groomed, fed, watered, tacked and braided.
Please help me as I am on the other side of the World.
What happens at these shows? Does a tacked horse get led up to the mounting block. The rider mounts, warms up, goes in the ring, comes out, dismounts, hands the horse to someone and leaves???
That is what it is sounding like, reading this thread.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8709559]
I would be using your down time to learn how to braid.
I cannot understand people paying for a horse to be groomed, fed, watered, tacked and braided.
Please help me as I am on the other side of the World.
What happens at these shows? Does a tacked horse get led up to the mounting block. The rider mounts, warms up, goes in the ring, comes out, dismounts, hands the horse to someone and leaves???
That is what it is sounding like, reading this thread.[/QUOTE]
For some people, yes. Other people do their own care to varying degree. Depends on the program. And there’s really no problem with that IF YOU KNOW IN ADVANCE HOW IT’S GOING TO WORK AND WHO IS PAYING. It is not customary to pay for services that did not inure to your benefit or that you did not ask for.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8709559]
I would be using your down time to learn how to braid.
I cannot understand people paying for a horse to be groomed, fed, watered, tacked and braided.
Please help me as I am on the other side of the World.
What happens at these shows? Does a tacked horse get led up to the mounting block. The rider mounts, warms up, goes in the ring, comes out, dismounts, hands the horse to someone and leaves???
That is what it is sounding like, reading this thread.[/QUOTE]
Actually, yes, this is what happens for many horses and riders at multi-day rated Hunter/Jumper horse shows. It is a completely different scenario than that at 3-Day Events, Dressage shows, and H/J schooling shows. For those outside of this very peculiar H/J show world, it is hard to imagine. But for many of those in it, it is the norm.
You can search the H/J forums to find many views on this, and I think you’ll find that those outside of said peculiar world share your thoughts.
I have tried to learn how to braid soooo many times, to no avail. That’s the one fee I will gladly pay (when I ride!!).
The grooming charges were required (they were all-inclusive) and there was no way to opt out.
[QUOTE=CrankyHorse12;8709617]
I have tried to learn how to braid soooo many times, to no avail. That’s the one fee I will gladly pay (when I ride!!). [/QUOTE]
Well jumper braids are button braids and super easy as opposed to hunter braids. They didn’t charge for a tail braid did they? Heck many in jumper land like the longer cut mane. It would not effect your placing either way as it is jumpers.
I haven’t read all the posts on this thread so apologize in advanced if this has been addressed.
In regards to prize money won by the “catch” rider - if it’s over a certain amount won, doesn’t the show have the someone’s SSN so they can 1099 a person? If I were the OP, I would want to make dang sure they didn’t use my SSN for the prize money. If the show assigned the OP’s SSN to the prize money then the OP should definitely receive ALL the prize money, since none apparently went to the leased horse show fees and to the OP.
Generally speaking ribbons, trophies, prize money should go to the “owner” and in this case the OP since she is the lessee of record?
Show fees -Here’s where it gets muddled. Some fees, sure the OP should bear responsibility for like the stall, share of grooming stall. If the horse had the option to return home and trainer wanted horse to stay and compete- then IMO either trainer (as true owner) or the “catch rider” should pick up any other expenses for the remaining week.
Rider showing while OP is laid up. I would have to discuss w/ trainer about this - on the one hand OP has a month-to-month lease. If OP squabbles over this other riding showing will trainer be a jerk and say that’s it - lease is done? Depending on who this rider is, are they too paying the trainer some “lease” fee so trainer is kind of double-dipping off the injured OP? (Nothing would surprise me)
In summary, while the OP is recuperating from injured status maybe this is a good time to re-evaluate this barn. Is there another place to go? How will the lease arrangement be if the OP can’t afford to show a lot once off injured reserve?
Keep us posted on how things go for you and wishing you a speedy and uneventful recovery
BTW Cranky … if (when) you have the showdown with the trainer, please do not fail to come back here to COTH and post every detail, every word, every expression and eyebrow lift. Or email exchange, if that is all it is. We live for it - it’s the big payoff for all the free opinions. Well, opinions can be found for free everywhere, but COTH delivers in great abundance and all in one place.
I have to say … I keep waiting for someone somewhere to sail in to defend the trainer. Usually by Page 3 of these threads the Contrarians and Houseguests are in there chopping away at common sense. But here we are up to Page 8 - this could be a COTH record, and I’ve been reading (on and off) for a lot of years. Maybe it’s coming yet … but even the other pro’s are chipping in on your side, Cranky …
I think you have far more coming to you than just the braiding. :o
But I’m reading between the lines that you may love the horse more than you hate the trainer … this is a long and slippery slope … but all the best to you, regardless. :yes: 
(There are other loveable horses … )
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8709559]
I would be using your down time to learn how to braid.
I cannot understand people paying for a horse to be groomed, fed, watered, tacked and braided.
Please help me as I am on the other side of the World.
What happens at these shows? Does a tacked horse get led up to the mounting block. The rider mounts, warms up, goes in the ring, comes out, dismounts, hands the horse to someone and leaves???
That is what it is sounding like, reading this thread.[/QUOTE]
So glad I’m not the only one baffled by this. It doesn’t take anything away from the fact that the OP was charged for services she didn’t need or want. That is wrong, plain and simple.
But is this set up normal in h/j land where you don’t even tack up or groom your own horses? Is this just at busy shows or is this how it works at he barn too? Clearly I don’t have much experience with how the other half rides LOL
[QUOTE=OverandOnward;8709686]
BTW Cranky … if (when) you have the showdown with the trainer, please do not fail to come back here to COTH and post every detail, every word, every expression and eyebrow lift. Or email exchange, if that is all it is. We live for it - it’s the big payoff for all the free opinions. Well, opinions can be found for free everywhere, but COTH delivers in great abundance and all in one place.
I have to say … I keep waiting for someone somewhere to sail in to defend the trainer… But here we are up to Page 8 - this could be a COTH record, and I’ve been reading (on and off) for a lot of years. Maybe it’s coming yet … but even the other pro’s are chipping in on your side, Cranky …[/QUOTE]
Honestly Cranky, you have united the forum! I think you are Training Level, but someday when you are Grand Prix you will look back on this as a magical unicorn moment in COTH history. And you Cranky are the unifying factor!
We are all rooting for you! You’ve got to keep us posted!
And yes, there are lots and lots of great trainers and other loveable ponies out there. I was going to say that in general, lease horse are for sale. Not only may this trainer rip you off at your first show on your baby, but you may come in someday to find someone trying him and see him sold out from under you. Get out of there girl!
[QUOTE=MtnDrmz;8709103]
If she specifically stated that she wanted him to keep showing and you agreed to leave him there that does change things a bit. However if you still wanted him to go home, and expressed that to her, she choose to have her horse stay, or if you noted that he could stay, but not show, that is totally different. Still sucky either way because all of this could have been avoided by the trainer’s communication ahead of time![/QUOTE]
There is also the small issue that when/if the OP agreed to keep the horse there, she wasn’t all there upstairs. It’s very easy to get steamrolled into agreeing to something when you freaking hurt. BTDT, have the moon boot.
A decent person doesn’t take advantage of someone who is sick or hurt & not thinking quite straight. The OP’s trainer is clearly not a decent person.
The really sad thing is the trainer could have come of this situation smelling like a rose. She could have kept the horse at the show, had another rider pick up the ride & split the expenses. In that case, we’d be commenting on how the trainer went above & beyond to minimize the expenses for a rider who couldn’t compete, but would have still had significant show expenses. The trainer would not have lost money doing this.
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