*Updated with Rad Horse Losing Glue On Shoes - Farrier vs Horse Problem

[kaya842]

My special hooved child has been back in acrylic glue on shoes since May and we have yet to get through a full 6 week cycle without losing multiple shoes. I’m going absolutely insane. The horse has never in her life (currently 19 yr old so not growing by any stretch of the imagination) been a shoe puller or a big mover (OTTB). Prior to May, I could count her lifetime pulled/ lost shoes on one hand. The farrier came recommended by the vet and the horse has improved in soundness and sole depth (I don’t think she is bringing the toe back enough to address the crushed/ underrun heels but am waiting on vet to send me the most recent rad). Horse lives in bell boots that touch the ground/ cover the shoes. She has been barefoot behind and shod behind and still loses the front shoes. The current cycle we are on, she lost one shoe within 24 hours. I just got back from a week long trip to find the other one is missing. I have brought this up to both vet and farrier who dismiss it as “well Horsey is feeling good so she must be pulling them off” and offer no solution on how to keep it from happening. It’s impossible to get her fit or keep her sound for a prolonged period of time when she is walking around with one padded, wedge shoe and one bare foot every other week (I have hoof boots and boot her when they come off). Is there anything that could or should be done to prevent this? I’m wanting to change farriers at this point as I feel my concerns are not being heard/ addressed and it’s crazy to pay $450+ for shoes that won’t even make a full cycle.

This is not the first time she’s been in glue on shoes - she’s been in them off and on for 4-5 years now with no issues like these prior to now (but before was a different farrier who does not service this area).

I saw the older threads on this topic but all referred to nailed on shoes and younger or big moving horses.

FWIW horse is on biotin, does not stay out when it’s wet, and is not damaging her hoof wall when the shoe is coming off. She DOES go lame without the shoes (as is expected with a Rocky turnout and thin soles + NPA) which is why it’s such a big deal to me, especially when it takes a week for farrier to come out and put them back on. Nails are not an option due to her hoof history which has made her incredibly sensitive to the pounding/ nailing.

[cayuse]

Sounds like an application/hoof prep problem, especially since she had glue ons with a different farrier and had no issues. Is there another farrier you could try?

[luvmyhackney]

How does farrier prep the feet prior to application?

Where the epoxy/glue touches has to be bone dry and should use a moisture reader to make sure is within the moisture guidelines. Farrier can use a heat gun or torch to dry out the foot.

[jlm0305]

My farrier always has me bring in my horses a couple hours before he arrives so their feet can dry out a bit and keep them in for a couple hours after the shoes are on to allow the glue to set well. He also has to work quickly, make sure the hoof is extremely clean, horse stands still once the shoe is on. He always wraps in saran wrap haha.

I will say we’ve had a couple times where shoes kept popping off and it wound up happening to every client - it was a bad batch of glue that the manufacturer wound up replacing.

[Scribbler]

Sounds like an application problem.

Have you considered hoof boots in front? That would allow rasping between trims which could help address the heels.

[kaya842]

Yeah we’ve done the hoof boots with so so success. I think the ideal path forward is to build enough sole that we can manage with boots to do more frequent trims, but while she’s built some more sole depth, it’s still not enough that we feel comfortable going back to boots yet. We also don’t have a 100% solve for addressing the NPA in boots (farrier says they have success riveting/ screwing wedge pads to the bottom of scoot boots) OR for keeping pads in the boots that won’t go flat. I’m very open to ideas on either front! Both farrier and vet feel that boots are trickier to get the mechanics right on as they are (usually) bulkier than shoes. I wouldn’t be against casting with pads and such and redoing that every 2 weeks (if they stay on the full 2 weeks).

Horsey always comes in/ stays in several hours before and after application in a heavily bedded, dry/ clean stall.

Farrier uses a butane torch and does Saran wrap after applying glue.

Horse is a saint and stays as still as is possible without drugs that she does not need (she does not slam her hoof down, dance around, etc).

[RhythmNCruise]

What kind of acrylic shoes are being put on? My farrier did the EasyShoe Performance on my guy for a couple of cycles, and they never dreamed of coming off. He was out in all sorts of conditions, ridden in them regularly, etc.
They definitely have to be applied just right though. It’s quite a process, and my horse is a bit of a wiggle worm, so it was even more tedious to get them on and keep him still while they set. But once they were on, we were good to go.

I’d say it’s probably on the farrier if your mare used to do fine and now is suddenly throwing these so often with the new farrier. Tough spot to be in though, I get it.

[ThreeWishes]

I feel your pain. Was the previous hoof package as heavy and involved as this one? Glue ons will always be a bit touch and go but in my experience when you’re then dealing with increased shoe weight and pour ins the entire package is super easy to pop off. Also I’ve never had much luck with more than a 4 week interval. Horse is thankfully out of glue ons presently. Have you considered Sigafoos?

[kaya842]

No pour in pads on these! The old package was 100% heavier than the current package. Old package was Eponas current package is the Easy Care Sport (well now the Sport came off and she has a Versa on the other hoof as that was farrier’a solution to her throwing that one 24 hours after application). I like the concept of the Sports a lot, but don’t love the Versas they are just too huge and don’t fit her shape well. I’ve mentioned Eponas to the farrier who dismissed them.

I’ve looked into Sigafoos but not 100% sure they would work as she needs pads (frog support is a must) and everyone I’ve asked about them doesn’t like applying or removing them.

[ThreeWishes]

Yes the sigafoos are basically fastened up the entire hoof wall. The more I read the more it seems perhaps an application issue. . I’m so sorry. I know how frustrating it can be to want to do right by your horse and bring them back into work and then deal with setbacks.

[StormyDay]

I used easycare sports and equilox glue. I lost one shoe, ever, and I’m not a farrier. It’s an application problem.

[EVneo]

We use the Sigafoos and my farrier is able to get a frog support pad nailed to the shoe, then shoe goes on. He drills a hole in the pad and is able to get cushion stuff in there too. They really don’t seem much harder to get on than regular glue-ons, albeit my farrier has let out a few cuss words and cursing his good work when it comes to pull them off sometimes, but usually after a cycle, the side edges are lifting a bit and he gets a good grip, the cuff peels up pretty easily. FWIW, we lose about 2 shoes a year - weirdly never the one with the pad now that I think of it…

[Warmblood1]

Change farriers. This isn’t worth forfeiting your sanity over. I have certainly been there - but with a horse that massively over tracked in work and threw shoes with the best farriers in the country. It’s so frustrating.

The long toes and less than ideal heels are a red flag to me. If you don’t have ideal angles, your goals of a better hoof are going to be hard to come by. They are also likely affecting the horse’s timing, causing the predisposition to lose shoes. Add that to a shoe that doesn’t fit the hoof shape perfectly and you’ve created a recipe to pull shoes. Your farrier needs to take the fact that the horse can’t get through a cycle - and did before - seriously.

I’m not sure what the current set up is with the shoes, but for the horse that constantly pulled shoes that I mentioned above, we placed glue on the heels to prevent any sort of lip or area with the shoes that the horse could step on and pull. I did have him in steel or aluminum with pads but this might potentially be an option with a glue on, depending on what you are using and how it fits the horse’s hoof, etc.

Also, check the American Farrier’s Association’s (AFA) website - there is a search feature where you can find CJFs near your location. It’s been really helpful for me.

[kaya842]

Thank you all for ensuring me I’m not crazy. I’ve reached out to another farrier to see if we can get on his schedule - fingers crossed that works out. Here is a rad of her “bad” foot with the shoe I don’t think fits well (from the cycle). What I see: long toe + breakover of shoe much too far forward, broken HPA even with the wedge, heel support not far enough back (all of which I had raised verbally to farrier prior to rad).

[ThreeWishes]

Your horse has lipping at the tip of the coffin bone. Is there a history of laminitis ?

[fivestrideline]

I came to ask the same thing. That’s not normal

[kaya842]

Yes and no - the tipping is not new. This is the [Coffin bone infection ] (Coffin Bone Infection - Possible Round 2) horse (praying that formatting works). The losing of the shoes is separate from the (multiple) other hoof issues which is why I started a new thread. Laminitis never DXed (and some of her care team says no way, others say of course) but she is treated as if she is laminitis prone (see my other thread about her and my other not finishing their super low NSC feed ).

[ThreeWishes]

Goodness… so this isn’t your first rodeo re:feet.
I really am sorry. I wish I could offer more. I will say that to me as a complete layman there’s isn’t anything egregious in those X-rays re: placement. Does not mean there isn’t room for improvement! I’m just not seeing a yikes. The farrier works with what they are given. I 100% believe if you feel knowing the history and your horse things could be different… get another opinion/farrier. You are your horses best historian and advocate. Trust your gut.

[Bogie]

@cayuse

Sounds like an application/hoof prep problem, especially since she had glue ons with a different farrier and had no issues.

This. My old gelding did great with Sigafoos (fronts only). They were pricey, but they allowed me to extend the time between farrier visits. This was a horse who lived outside 24/7 in all weather, so I was quite impressed with the durability of the shoes.

[kaya842]

Update - Returned home last weekend from a week away to find that the LF (applied on 9/15, which is our current cycle and same cycle the RF came off in 24 hrs) was off. Waited until Thursday for farrier to come fix. Guess what is barely hanging by a thread as of this morning? It may have been that way yesterday as well, but I’ve been on house (well bed/ couch really) arrest with COVID so haven’t been outside to see horsey since it was reset. This is how it looked when I fed this AM and when I messaged farrier all they had to say is “OMG WTF this shouldn’t be happening!” Uh. No shit Sherlock. The only thing they could possibly think to try is nails which I am adamantly against as this horse just can’t tolerate the nailing and I don’t believe that’s the answer anyway. Oh, also guess who is out of town for the next week and half and won’t be able to fix it (again) when it inevitably falls off? The suggest was for their assistant to handle (uh no) or for me to take care of it myself. I explained that I’m paying several hundred dollars every few weeks so this DOESN’T happen and I don’t have to do it myself. This is insane. But hopefully the end as they have officially been fired. Just have to limp her along with boots or the super glued shoes applied by yours truly until her appt with the new farrier on 11/6.

Photos of the shoe reapplied on 10/19. When asked why the shoe appears much too wide, the response was “it’s the same size she’s always worn”.