VA: Fox hound snatched by Peta employee; facing felony charges

[JSwan]

I haven’t asserted that.

I think there may be the perception of true affiliation because of employees to go from nonprofit to nonprofit.

For example, a person interested in animal rights careers might start out at PETA, then look for a job at HSUS or vice versa.

I worked in environmental nonprofits - and this was pretty common. Actually - it was pretty common for fundraisers to go from nonprofit to nonprofit as well - they weren’t usually so focused on staying within a particular type of nonprofit.

So perhaps there is the perception of affiliation because so many PETA employees have gone on to better paying and higher profile careers at HSUS.

That’s just a guess based on my own experience in philanthropy. It’s also common for nonprofits that share common interests to work together on certain projects, share information, have board members in common, have high dollar donors in common - so in that sense there may be an “affiliation” but an informal one. The big nonprofits become a bit homogenized - employees go back and forth - there is a lot of overlap in mission, donors, and interest. They’ll even strategize on high profile issues.

Hope that helps. I know that PETA and PCRM are truly connected - but I’d hesitate to say that PETA and HSUS have any formal affiliation. Of course- since HSUS is merging with so many other animal rights groups - perhaps PETA will one day become part of HSUS. Anything is possible.

edited to add - HSUS puts out a lot of books because they make money on them. It doesn’t matter if they want eventing or hunting banned or not - because if they can make money on selling a book on horse care - they’ll do it. It’s just a good business decision.

@Blueshadow;2533284

Sorry guys, but NOTHING in these links demonstrates AFFILIATION of PETA and HSUS, or that HSUS is a “cover” for PETA. Show me THAT, show me evidence of AFFILIATION.

[CanadianGolden]

Here’s an example. Both groups have stated the same goal. While I agree that it does not demonstrate affiliation, it does demonstrate that HSUS is just as dangeous to animal owners as PETA is.

http://saveourdogs.net/animalrights.html

Here are some quotes from leaders/affiliates of animal rights groups. They sound pretty scary to me. http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/animalrightsquote.htm

[Blueshadow]

JSwan, that is exactly my reading of the link posted, thanks.

And I did notice that the “switch” employees cited moved from PETA to HSUS. Of course, one could infer infiltration of HSUS by more extreme members. Or, one could infer that those employees now desired employment in a less extreme organization. Or one could infer that they wanted to earn more money…

Anyway, I WILL be curious to see how long the HSUS can maintain its opposition to legitimate sports, and its promotion of veganism, while sustaining its mainstream base. I see Microsoft came under substantial pressure to cease its support of HSUS due to the HSUS’s increasingly anti-hunting stance…

[JSwan]

Having worked at nonprofits - I can say that they probably just wanted more money and better benefits. Hey - we all have to make a living, right?

I hope that HSUS will return to a more mainstream organization; one that I can resume supporting. But with new leadership comes change; and the changes at HSUS are disturbing. There is no difference between PETA and HSUS except HSUS has more money.

Sorry to drift from the original topic - but frankly I’m surprised that horse owners aren’t more cognizant of what these groups are trying to accomplish. Perhaps it’s that they think dressage is safe, or trail riding is safe (insert name of sport they’re not focusing on) so they don’t care?

Dunno. But in the case of the PETA employee - that person wasn’t a Good Samaritan picking up a stray dog. That was an intentional act - and I hope the Court arrives at the same conclusion. We’ll see.

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=CanadianGolden;2533264]
HSUS is a cover for PETA. They may do things that appear to be consistent with being a real shelter organization, but they are just as insane. The new legislation (spaying and neutering early, requiring animals to be licensed) is just the start of them slowly controlling dog ownership until they ban it entirely. Hopefully that won’t happen. [/QUOTE]
And just how/why are early spay/neuter programs insane? It ain’t the PETA and HSUS folk breeding gazillions of unwanted animals every year. Those are coming from irresponsible owners.

In my state, a law was past last year making it illegal to own a fertile feline. Breeders are required to apply for a breeder’s licence which entitles the state to inspect their premises to ensure the animals are being properly cared for and to eliminate/reduce those horrible “collector” stories. What’s wrong with that? Dogs are already required to be licenced and vaccinated for rabies.

Shelters are over run and untold numbers of animals are being euthanized everyday because there’s not enough room or adoptive homes. And why is it the tax payers’ responsibility to pay for it anyway? The “stay the course” mentality, with everyone doing as they please (including dropping off multiple unwanted litters at the pound regularly), clearly ain’t working. But let’s demonize PETA/HSUS for coming up with a solution. :rolleyes:

[JSwan]

I don’t think anyone believes that it is ok to abuse or maltreat animals. I’m not demonizing PETA or HSUS - they do that quite well all by themselves.

And since neither operate any shelters or spay neuter programs - PETA even blocked efforts to start spay/neuter programs in the Virginia Beach area - I hardly think they are worthy of praise.

I don’t think it’s ok for people to shove their philosophies down my throat. If I want to foxhunt, who are you to say I can’t? I’m perfectly capable of taking care of hounds and horses, and be a good sportsman, without HSUS or PETA hovering over me. If I want to event - who are you to tell me I can’t? Who died and left you in charge? Or HSUS? Or PETA? We’ve been able to govern ourselves without being subjected to their tender mercies.

If I want to eat meat - who are you or HSUS or PETA to tell me I can’t?

The problem with those groups is that they want to be in charge. They want to make my ethical choices for me - and if I don’t like it - they’ll sue or break my windows or threaten me.

No thanks - I trust you to take care of your animals responsibly and ethically - and if you don’t - there is a mechanism within our judicial system to address your transgressions. I ask the same of you.

Any organization that espouses the principle “gone in one generation” - means - no pets.

[Blueshadow]

I am a frustrated, but partially continuing supporter of HSUS. (Not of PETA. I’m opposed to terrorism.) I agree with some of their stances (really, policies). I disagree with others. I can’t see how they can sustain the mainstream support that they still do have with the changes that have been made, especially those in the last 5 years. I actively support those stances that I can - writing to my representatives, etc. I also write to, and post blogs on the website of, HSUS, regarding aspects of legislation that they support, and which I am concerned about. They have never published or acknowledged a single one! To be published there, you either need to be an out and out supporter, or a complete anti animal welfare maniac… that is my conclusion.

We’re off topic, sorry. I have a funny story about Wayne Pacelle, but I’ll save it for a more appropriate thread…

I’m hoping for a conviction in this case.

[JSwan]

Blueshadow - I understand what you are saying. It is indeed, frustrating.

I’ll hope for a conviction too - and also hope that HSUS goes back to what it used to be.

[Bluey]

I have posted links to an article or two with facts of how HSUS and PETA are connected and what their ultimate goals are.

Every time people here won’t acknowledge the facts in the articles, but go on the attack about where the articles come from and that of course they then are wrong.

Well, sorry, they are not wrong, just those FOR those groups don’t like to hear the truths.

Don’t let the emotions those animal rights activists are so good at raising in you with their rethoric and wild stories cloud your judgement.
Read them for content and then, with what you already know, come to your own conclusions.

The bottom line is that by supporting those kinds of animal right activists at all today, if they are successful, we may not have any horses, or any other animals, to care for in the future.

Once you have BOTH sides of these stories, then you may choose well, now informed, not inflamed:

http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/136

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2088

[glitterless]

[QUOTE=Huntertwo;2532764]

They are the group who video taped the workers at the KFC factory kicking around live chickens for kicks, [/QUOTE]

Sorry, I’ve gotta stop you right there. What exactly is a KFC factory? What is YOUR source? KFC buys their chicken from a variety of suppliers. I know that my local KFC buys their chicken from Maple Lodge Farms. Much of the chicken that we buy in our grocery stores come from the same places that supply KFC. I am not aware of KFC’s chicken factories. They FRY chicken, they don’t raise and slaughter them!

[CarrieK]

You know, we raised chickens when I was a kid. I whacked them with the bamboo rake when they came after me. I’m sure I kicked a few in my time.
I guess I’m gonna rot…

Sorry for straying from the topic, but my conscience–oh, who’m I kidding? Conscience, schmonscience! I hate chickens and I’m sure I’d kick at one out of pure spite and meanness for all those dew claws that scratched me up.

[Teach]

Oh by the way - these hunting dogs don’t chase livestock. If they did - a landowner would be perfectly within his rights to shoot the hound. The hound owner knows that, and won’t keep a hound that chases livestock.

I will say that in my experience, this is true of responsible hunters. I can distinctly remember (from when I was only about 6-7 years old) a situation where my pony was chased & being “run” in his turnout by a pair of hunting dogs. We called the guy we thought was the owner (lived up the street), but they turned out not to be his. He not only came out to our place in the dark to catch & remove someone else’s hounds (with the intention of tracking back the owner & giving him hell about the situation), but informed my parents that if we ever had his hounds at our place, we could just shoot 'em, or he would come do it for us–he didn’t want to any part of a hound that would run stock. It always struck me as being very responsible (in a slightly crude way, I guess) that he was perpared to do that if he needed to, instead of allowing his dogs to continue to be a major problem & scourge of the countryside while protesting “Oh, my darlings wouldn’t do that!” (I’m looking at you, chicken-rabbit-&-baby-lamb-killing trio of housepets from the new development. Oh, wait–no I’m not, because after (actually, during) the 2nd lamb attack, we employed the 3 S’s ourselves!)

I will also say that we have several friends who are fairly high up in Farm Bureau, & the FB not only will tell you all about the connections between HSUS & PETA, but actively discussed it at their last nat. meeting & are working to counter their influence.

[gkittredge]

Whoa Teach,

I don’t know what state you are in, but in New Hampshire and Vermont, landowners are NOT allowed to shoot any dog chasing livestock. The only person who can legally dispatch an animal for such an infraction is the Game Warden. Furthermore should a landowner choose to take the law into their own hands and raise a gun, the owner of said dog is perfectly within their right to sue the landowner.

I know this may sound wrong, but there is a common misconception that a landowner can kill a dog chasing livestock. The landowner may call the Game Warden, but MAY NOT shoot the dog.

Should you require, I am happy to provide you the statutes. They are also is the VT and NH hunting rules and regulations.

[JSwan]

Why on earth is there such a law? How odd!

Lordy - if a dog was running my livestock and they were about to go through a fence into a road - I’m getting my rifle - not waiting for hours for a Game Warden to show up. The Game Warden isn’t going to help me pay the vet bills or judgment against me when my livestock kills some motorist.

I’m glad I live in Virginia!!

[NRB]

[QUOTE=gkittredge;2535246]
Whoa Teach,
I don’t know what state you are in, but in New Hampshire and Vermont, landowners are NOT allowed to shoot any dog chasing livestock. .[/QUOTE]

Well here in Va a landowner is allowed to shoot any dog chasing thieir livestock. I found this in the Va state Code, website is:http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm in case anyone else would like to research Va law. 2nd sentance, “any person”

§ 3.1-796.116. Dogs killing, injuring or chasing livestock or poultry.

It shall be the duty of any animal control officer or other officer who may find a dog in the act of killing or injuring livestock or poultry to kill such dog forthwith whether such dog bears a tag or not. Any person finding a dog committing any of the depredations mentioned in this section shall have the right to kill such dog on sight as shall any owner of livestock or his agent finding a dog chasing livestock on land utilized by the livestock when the circumstances show that such chasing is harmful to the livestock. Any court shall have the power to order the animal control officer or other officer to kill any dog known to be a confirmed livestock or poultry killer, and any dog killing poultry for the third time shall be considered a confirmed poultry killer. The court, through its contempt powers, may compel the owner, custodian, or harborer of the dog to produce the dog.

Any animal control officer who has reason to believe that any dog is killing livestock or poultry shall be empowered to seize such dog solely for the purpose of examining such dog in order to determine whether it committed any of the depredations mentioned herein. Any animal control officer or other person who has reason to believe that any dog is killing livestock, or committing any of the depredations mentioned in this section, shall apply to a magistrate of the county, city or town wherein such dog may be, who shall issue a warrant requiring the owner or custodian, if known, to appear before a general district court at a time and place named therein, at which time evidence shall be heard. If it shall appear that the dog is a livestock killer, or has committed any of the depredations mentioned in this section, the district court shall order that the dog be (i) killed immediately by the animal control officer or other officer designated by the court or (ii) removed to another state which does not border on the Commonwealth and prohibited from returning to the Commonwealth. Any dog ordered removed from the Commonwealth which is later found in the Commonwealth shall be ordered by a court to be killed immediately.

(1984, c. 492, § 29-213.85; 1985, c. 385; 1987, c. 488; 1990, c. 222; 1993, c. 977; 1998, c. 817.)

[glitterless]

gkittredge, do you actually WAIT for the authorities to catch or destroy a dog that’s endangering your livestock? As a livestock owner, I believe that you have the right to protect your animals. I would challenge any such law. Your animals could be dead or injured by the time the warden showed up; unless he’s your next door neighbour.

[yellow-horse]

well i’ll repeat what i said earlier, you can ususally tell when a dog is hunting, i don’t mind them at all, they are just passing through, they sometimes pass through my pasture or in front of my kennels but they keep going, they are not easily distracted from what they are intent on doing, which is continuing the hunt, however i’d quess at least about once a month there are a couple of dogs that just make a nuisence of themselves, running around in the pasture, standing at the kennel barking at my hounds, i’ve never shot one, it would take a whole lot of nuisence for me to shoot a dog, but i have called a/c or the owner if i can coax it over to me, and then i stick it in the little temp kennel so it stops running around
i’ll tellyou the most damage done here by a stray animal was a farm pig that got loose when the guy down the raod was trying to load some livestock to take to market, terrorized my horses and goats ran down my fence to get in the pasture then ran downt he fence again to get out of the pasture, that animal i would have shot

[NRB]

Veering back to the topic at hand…sort of…We have had several hunting dogs loose on the property where I board my horse. None of them have ever been a nusience. They never once bothered the horses. Their owner came as soon as we called them to pick up the dog. On several occasions we have had a neighboors pet dog chase the horses, biting at their feet and hocks. I myself had to pull the dog out of the paddock; he kept lunging after my horse as I was hauling him off, he was clueless to my presence as he was just having too much fun chasing the horses. That dog is a potential danger, should he ever bite a horse or chase one through a fence. To be clear that dog is NOT a hunting dog, not a hunting breed of dog. He’s just a pet who needs to be contained.

[summerhorse]

[QUOTE=CanadianGolden;2533332]
Here’s an example. Both groups have stated the same goal. While I agree that it does not demonstrate affiliation, it does demonstrate that HSUS is just as dangeous to animal owners as PETA is.

http://saveourdogs.net/animalrights.html

Here are some quotes from leaders/affiliates of animal rights groups. They sound pretty scary to me. http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/animalrightsquote.htm[/QUOTE]

I love this one:

“In a perfect world, we would not keep animals for our benefit, including pets,” Tom Regan, emeritus professor of philosophy at North Carolina State University and author of “Empty Cages” - speaking at University of Wisconsin-Madison campus, March 3, 2004

OK, I’m the one who has to get up and go to work every day even with a disability I could be sitting home for, I’m the one who drives ancient cars, lives in an ancient tiny house, wears clothes to rags, have 5 pairs of shoes, eat cheap frozen dinner while the cats have science diet, and have no money left after paying all of their vet bills.

now WHO is benefitting? I’d say it was at least mutual!!!

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=summerhorse;2536723]
I love this one:

“In a perfect world, we would not keep animals for our benefit, including pets,” Tom Regan, emeritus professor of philosophy at North Carolina State University and author of “Empty Cages” - speaking at University of Wisconsin-Madison campus, March 3, 2004

OK, I’m the one who has to get up and go to work every day even with a disability I could be sitting home for, I’m the one who drives ancient cars, lives in an ancient tiny house, wears clothes to rags, have 5 pairs of shoes, eat cheap frozen dinner while the cats have science diet, and have no money left after paying all of their vet bills.

now WHO is benefitting? I’d say it was at least mutual!!![/QUOTE]
If everyone where like you, there would be no need for PETA/HSUS/SPCA. Sadly, this is not the case. Far to many people are users - of each other and other animals. Take a look at the thread on what is considered an acceptable fate for hunting dogs past their prime. Just “shoot 'em” is the consensus. This, after years of loyal service to their “masters”. :no:

Personally, I agree with Dr. Regan. We, as a species, are not smart enough, moral enough, nor ethical enough to lord over every sentient species we find “useful” on this planet.