Purebred Arabian gelding. All CMK bred.
I got all the links to open but one. Doesn’t anybody have pictures of jumpers from the 21st century! The breed has changed since the 1980’s and I think pictures of current day jumpers might be more what TRI is looking for. I can’t find a website for Russian Roulett or Angelica Bay. There is also Showgun’ sister, Kayce Ablanca. What’s the name of that horse John French rode in Working Hunters at the Sport Horse Nationals? I think these are the pictures that would make more sense than those of many years gone by. Just my opinion.
Anglo Arabian mare, age four. Sired by Final Pool (TB). Dam pure polish Arabian.
Anglo Arabian gelding. Second show over fences. Sired by CMK Arabian. Out of a Bold Ruler gdaughter. (Pic taken a moment too early).
When I was a sophomore in high school, my Chemistry teacher told the class something interesting. He asked if one could ever disprove that Nessie was not in Loch Ness. How could one prove it? By not finding her?
You cannot prove that something is not. You cannot prove that there isn’t a pleistocene-era sea creature in a lake in Scotland. I personally do not believe there is, but there’s a huuge difference between proof and belief.
What am I getting at? Tri, all you have done is prove that poor examples of Arabians exist. But you cannot prove that there are not many, many excellent ones. You merely believe it to be so. It is a mere belief. The word “mere” is important. It suggests that beliefs are less credible than proof. I’m sure I could find photos of selectively-bred Warmbloods that jump flat, or don’t raise their shoulders enough, etc. But to say “Here, look at this horse - it could never do Open Hunters!” Yeah, um, that’s right. Nobody said that horse could/should.
The odds that the average Arabian horse is of significantly better quality than you believe are much higher than the odds of running into something that should be extinct.
Anyways this is turning into a Thread About Tri’s Beliefs rather than a discussion of the potential pros and cons of crossing Arabians and Warmbloods, be it for a Half-Arabian outcome or for a Warmblood outcome.
Anglo Arabian mare (baby-green) sired by an Polish/CMK sire, out of a Hyperion/Swaps TB mare.
Also her two year old palomino son (an example of the F2. He is 16.1H at age two). He is 75% TB.
Plus her half brother. He has the same sire as her, but out of a linebred Hoist The Flag TB mare. Seal brown, age three, 16H.
[QUOTE=BravAddict]
He asked if one could ever disprove that Nessie was not in Loch Ness. How could one prove it? By not finding her?
QUOTE]
Being a former scientist, sure you can prove it. Drain Loch Ness:)
I think this is a 50/50 Split. Both breeds will benefit from this cross. And who says we can’t prove the Arabian can be a competitor against the warmblood. I swiped this off the Arabian forum. I hope that’s OK. I don’t want to get into any trouble because this was taken from another forum. I don’t know how to copy a picture so this is all I can give you.
This is from that big HITS show in Indio, California. Originally posted on ABH by someone other than me.
CLASS 205. LEVEL 3 JUMPER SECTION D
Placing
Horse
Rider
Owner
1
SAN ANTONIO
SARAH VICKERS
JAMEY JONATHAN
2
RUSSIAN ROULETT
FEDERICO MANTARAS
ANGELIQUE ANTHONY
3
THINK UP
JERI LOU PAUL-ELLISON
JERI LOU PAUL-ELLISON
4
SCAPPINO FUTURE
RICHARD SPOONER
EDUARDO SANCHEZ NAVARRO
5
OCEAN CAT
RICHARD SPOONER
RICHARD SPOONER
6
LARASH
JILL HUMPHREY
RUDY LEONE / LEONE EQUESTRIAN
7
CHAMADE
STEPHANIE BURRIS
STEPHANIE BURRIS
8
CARJO (“KAI YO”)
ERIC WELLING
MEGAN MCBRATNEY
This class I think had a 100 plus jumpers out there and as you can see, AN PB ARABIAN PLACED SECOND in this big class. I don’t know if he was jumping flat or over the moon. He held is own against the all breed jumpers. I’m tried of hearing about flat Arabian jumpers. Nobody wants to talk about the well trained, good jumpers. They are out there, they can hold their own. So, if these horses can be improved upon by crosses with the WB then the Arabian Sport Horse will be blasting onto the showgrounds. Of course, these would be HA’s but the PB’s are still damn good when they are well trained by pro’s who know what it takes to win against the big guys.:yes:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I like that!
See posts 177,178,180,181, 183
Oh, and the name of the horse John French rode is Jamil SF, by Bey Shah. Jamil is the horse that beat Showgun at the nationals in 2005, both ridden by JF.
Thanks, isn’t John French a BNT in the open Hunter shows?
I read a story on him somewhere where he said he really enjoyed showing at the Arabian Shows. He liked the whole atmosphere and all the fun & parties. He should come to Scottsdale and REALLY party! 
Some of you just need to grow up…and maybe learn how to read.
The TOPIC of THIS POST is the question asking if it is good or bad to cross arabs with warmbloods. Not “do you love your arabs”, “is your arab sweet and loyal”, “did your arab make a wonderful school horse when you were growing up”.
Then I pointed out there are two camps with different points of veiw - the arab breeder who crosses with a warmblood to make a better ARAB sporthorse to show IN ARAB SHOWS and then the warmblood breeder who looks at the arab to add bone, pretty heads and longivety.
Well of COURSE, if you are trying to make an arab sporthorse to compete in your nationals, etc. crossing it with a warmblood can only help you - the more the better based on what YOU are telling me.
But, for the warmblood breeder who is trying to breed FEI horses, international level jumpers, etc, less arab is desired. This isn’t just my opinion, this is also the opinion of every single warmblood breeding official in every breeding area I’ve ever been to or heard about. So get over it. Go enjoy your arab nationals. I’m not interested in that arena - maybe the original poster should have stated that this thread is for arab show participates only.
[QUOTE=tri]
Some of you just need to grow up…and maybe learn how to read.
The TOPIC of THIS POST is the question asking if it is good or bad to cross arabs with warmbloods. Not “do you love your arabs”, “is your arab sweet and loyal”, “did your arab make a wonderful school horse when you were growing up”.
Then I pointed out there are two camps with different points of veiw - the arab breeder who crosses with a warmblood to make a better ARAB sporthorse to show IN ARAB SHOWS and then the warmblood breeder who looks at the arab to add bone, pretty heads and longivety.
Well of COURSE, if you are trying to make an arab sporthorse to compete in your nationals, etc. crossing it with a warmblood can only help you - the more the better based on what YOU are telling me.
But, for the warmblood breeder who is trying to breed FEI horses, international level jumpers, etc, less arab is desired. This isn’t just my opinion, this is also the opinion of every single warmblood breeding official in every breeding area I’ve ever been to or heard about. So get over it.
I’f I’m not mistaken, the discussion was going along just fine and YOU attacked a well know breeders horse by saying THIS WAS EVERYTHING YOU FIND HIDEOUS ABOUT ARABS so to speak. Kind of a lousy thing to say about any breed of horse, don’t you think? Then you stated that most of the Arab’s on links shown you were FLAT jumpers. I’m confused, did you expect everyone to say, Oh yes, our horses are ugly bug eyed no talent jumpers, and move on? You’re the one who picked the areas to move in and out of, not us. Allanglos gave you examples of horses after you snickered about the other links being taken down. I guess our mistake was trying to clear up a few misconceptions, your words, not mine. By the way, which type of warmblood do you breed and what is your disipline? FEI Jumping? EFI Dressage?
Furthermore, the cross has already been done. Including the cross of a BNT’s jumper named Justice to an Arabian mare jumper. And then Showgun being bred to a Champion WB Mare. I cannot say if these horses will show on the Arabian or Open shows. The Arab no longer needs to stay within their own shows. PB or HALF are very capable of competing in BOTH show circuits. In my opinion, this is about breeding a better athlete, for both sides. If you disagree, fine, but’s that your opinion. And of course, you are entitled to have that opinion.
At the National or Regional shows, the half Arab does not complete with the PB (in most disiplines as jumpers, hunters and so on) so it’s all a moot point and the cross of Arab to any breed would not further anyone in the PB classes. As for every WB breeder in the world agreeing with you then I guess all those who have made the cross didn’t get that news. It all boils down to one thing, if you don’t like the Arabian and feel they have nothing to offer then move on and we will get over it just fine.
correction on the above mentioned horse bred to PB jumper mare. See another post.
Well well, Tri, a bit testy?
I could give a d–m about what some warmblood breeding official thinks regarding arab blood. What I do care about is the opinion of judges and top trainers. The pics of the horses I presented show open and do so very successfully, to the point that judges try to buy them from me and trainers want their clients to own them.
If warmblood circles have a problem with that, then they will lose business to me:) That is, if they really feel that way. I tend to doubt it since they approve my arabs (and many other arabs) into their studbooks.
Oh my, :eek: :eek: :eek: I’ve been told I have made a mistake on the WB jumper being bred to the Canadian PB Jumper mare. The horse she is being bred to is JUDGMENT, not Justice. Ok, sorry for the misinformation. Wonder if the person who owns Judgement knows about the taboo.
Tri
I know perfectly well how to read, honestly my spelling could use some help at times though, But I assure you I can most definetly read.
Yes the Topic was WB crosses with Arabians and what others think about them. Unfortunely you have done nothing but bemoan the inadequacies of the Arabian with out ever opening your narrow minded veiw of what others here are trying to share with you. NO Arabians are not for everyone but then again neither is WB. Quite frankly I much prefer a horse that is suited to my own size and temperment but that is just my personal view, each their own.
I shared the links to those photos of All Davenport horses from both past to current present to show that even in one very small group there has been for many years athletic arabians as you have discounted all of the current photos of current arabians out there jumping as not the norm. My point was to show that there has most assuredly been athletic Arabians of yesteryear to current succeeding in several different aspects of sporthorses.
The link of a bay stallion Mystic uf going over a jump, this horse is currently this year and for the past several years has been competeing in mounted shootouts with his owner and doing fabulous and in all regards kicking much larger horses butts as this stallion is all of 14.1 hands. His owner and he are currently at the top of their devision.
Then there was several links to a grey stallion Portico who is a 1979 stallion if I am not mistaken and still quite hale, hearty and sound. And he is still siring foals!
Both of these examples are being made to show how versitile and hearty some of these horses are.
And yes I did not quite care for the attack to M. Bowlings farm, it was undeserved and uncalled for. This is a true gentleman who has been extermely helpful to anyone who has requested his help along with the work he has done in his writtings and research.
You do not have to like our horses, nor do we have to like yours but flinging insults is just uncalled for. Overall though it should at least be acknowledged that all those who praise there specific breed and would like to throw Arabs out like the bath water that they wouldn’t have their esteemed breed without the influence of the Arab or a similar breed.
Fair point. 
But could you prove it’d never been there? Being a former scientist, you should get the example! That not finding something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. As in, not being exposed to Arabians suitable for sport doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
Anyways, carry on.
Oh excuse me, I did not realize that this thread had become the “respond only if you want to blow sunshine up the a#*ss of every arab breeder” thread.
Please, again, learn how to read. Most who responded obviously haven’t read the thread and want to pick and choose phrases out of context and ignore the rest of what was posted…to outright lies. But hey, maybe that is a reflection on arab people, don’t know, hmmm.
The pics of the TWO OUT OF, LETS SEE, HOW MANY PICS POSTED where I pointed out that the horses were jumping flat were a valid observation. If you can’t see it or if it is accepted in the arab shows, so be it. But if you can’t call a spade a spade because of your OWN BREED BLINDNESS, then don’t rant and rave at me, just get some counseling.
Also, how come you guys can complain about the horrible breeding practices and the horrible type but I can’t??? You want to moan and cry and say these old fashioned arabs are so much BETTER THAN THE OTHERS, right??? So apparently YOU DON’T LIKE THEM EITHER. And, I didn’t start calling them bug-eyed, YOU DID. Why can you but not me?
I would not breed any warmblood (or any horse) to one of those, AS YOU DESCRIBE IT, the bug-eyed halter sort AND FROM WHAT YOU SAY, YOU WON’T EITHER. I did say that I would breed a certain selected old-fashioned sort or shagya every few generations or so. WHY IS THAT SO OFFENSIVE TO YOU?
If this is an example of arab breeders trying to promote their “type”, thanks but no thanks, the sport horse people are full up with crap, don’t need the arab ones adding to it.
wow… I did not read the whole thread but …
I happened to grow up riding and showing a Arab as a hunter. Most Hunter trainers in my area still to this day do not believe she was a pure bred arab.
She is POlish bred, and only 15 hands. I also have never understood the whole hate a breed… blah blah. A good horse is a good horse. I see so many close minded people in the horse world. I have never understood it. My little mare has been one of the most versitile animals I have ever owned. She started out pulling carriges, halter, then western pleassure, saddle seat, had a foal, became a hunter, did dressage, showed in Childrens HUnter, showed in Arab shows, went to college, had another foal, taught begginer lessons, now is 29 years old and retired and spoiled rotten!!! Not only did my little mare do all those things she was succsessful at them. " won top ribbons and points in all and wa the best mother and teacher out of any horse I have ever known…which to me is amazing. Funny the one thing she was bad at and hated was trail riding!!! Arabs are not for every one, neither are quarter horses, warm bloods etc… but ever breed has quality’s and things that are not so great. BUT… I would take my little Arab mare over any horse any day. I wish I new how to scan and download pictures. I would love to post a few of my little mare jumping.
LANDONN I foal receives full brand with RPSI
The foal receives full branding with RPSI today, and she’s out of an arab mare!!!
