By the way, who’s your aunt. :winkgrin: What does she judge? Main Ring, Sport Horse what? You say she travels all over the world, doing what? Judging Arabian horses? We probably have everyone from every Arabian forum lurking on this thread so give us a hint!
Let me see, who is a Mother and Daughter judging team.
QUOTE from Tri:
And, I didn’t start calling them bug-eyed, YOU DID. Why can you but not me?
OK, fess up EVERYBODY! Who called our horses bug-eyed? :lol: :lol:
Who’s this TRI person, are there two of you posting on the forum?
Aug. 15, 2006, 08:28 PM
tri
Working Hunter Join Date: Feb. 5, 2003
Posts: 352
I’m not making sweeping generalities at all. I’ve already said I like the old style arabian and I’ve said I like the shagya. I still believe that the bug-eyed sort is the more predominant type being bred and apparently others with much more experience in the arab world think so too.
Also, spanish arabs, as said, equal 1%
Someone else asked “where are they!!!” when referring to the coveted 'old style". So I am NOT the only one who sees barnful after barnful of the bug eyed sort.:eek:
Come on Tri, your opinion and mine isn’t going to stop the world or make a difference in who breeds whom to what. Lots of people don’t like Arabian horses and lots of people don’t like Hummers and Rolex watches too.
WOW is the right response to many of your responses.
Quite frankly I think what grates the most is the way you post is offensive and borders on attacking while in a manner to convey ridicule and yelling tone.
Yes I have read the thread from start to present.
What I have read is many responses expanding on what they percieve as good qualities in an Arabian and have also read what others are precieving as poor qualities that have been perputrated within the Arab community. Many here have been extremely forthcoming in both of these regards. I have not read anything that even closely resembles excuses for the Arabian, but have read a lot of discussion about why many enjoy and cherish their Arabian blooded horses, all done with a deep seated honesty for your benifit to possibly help you understand where they/we are coming from. At every turn it has felt as you had no regard for these posters opinions and that you where flinging dirt back. For what purpose I don’t know. NO ONE has said that you need to like the Arabian, NO ONE has said that your choice of horse ( is it a WB?) is the wrong choice. NO ONE has critized whatever your choice is.
What I have seen written several times on this one thread is this A GOOD HORSE IS A GOOD HORSE. Which is completely accurate, irregardless of breed, color, age, size, etc. That is a simple fact.
Boy do we have a chip on our shoulder or what? Could you be more rude and offensive? I doubt it…at least not without getting yourself banned from the board.
Most of the people on this forum are quite intelligent and fully capable of reading. We are fully aware of the topic of the post – the title is quite clear.
Nowhere does the title ask “can you get an FEI by crossing an arab with a warmblood.” It only asks is it a good idea to cross an arab with a warmblood.
No where does it exclude arab sporthorse competition from consideration. Not to mention the open competiton successes that have been pointed out in this thread. Such as the OLYMPIC SILVER MEDALIST REMUS and others. Those points you conveniently ignore. In fact, anything based in fact that you can’t refute you seem to ignore.
Instead, you offer only generalizations, unsubstantiated claims, bashing and personal attacks. I don’t know what warmblood officials you have or haven’t talked to or what areas you’ve been to. Frankly, without specific facts I don’t see how that is pertinent to the discussion anyway. I can just as easily claim that every warmblood official I’ve talked recommends introducing arab blood every other generation – it would be just as valuable to this conversation.
We do know that arabs are approved into the oldenburg gov and trakehner markbooks. (Oh that’s right, you decided that trakehners aren’t really warmbloods, lol.)
You claimed that the arab introduced into warmbloods is mostly shagya anyway. Yet 2 of the 4 I mentioned – Inschallah and Matcho – are FRENCH ANGLO ARAB, not shagya. I’m not sure about Bolero, but I think he comes from anglo-arab as well. That’s 3 out of 4 major modern warmbloods with strong arab influence. I’ve already said that the 4th, Ramzes, is shagya. So what? Even with purebred arab at F6, shagyas can be as much as 50% arab (actually 9/16, so even more than 50%).
You are right about one thing, though. Somebody in this thread definitely needs to get over herself.
Call me at 622-4914. 16H Purebred Arabian stallion, located in Reddick. I have three foals-2 sucklings and a yearling still at the farm, sired by him. Also two great H/Warmblood two year-old geldings that are branded Belguim Warmbloods, out of Main Mare book approved purebred Arabians.
LOL, we love the cross of Purebred Arabians and Warmbloods. Our first two are in Dressage training (3 years-old) and we are getting RAVE reviews from the trainer. We had 2 of our Purebreds go Top Eight in our USDF Regional at Jacsonville FL last year, 3 are qualified this year.
A good horse is a good horse-period. 15 hands or 17 hands.
Yikes!!!
I’m almost afraid to respond!
Anyhoo, IMNSHO I think that with the right cross it can be very successful. I was a doubting Thomas about the F1 cross as well. BUT we (my mother and I) bought a colt out of a Russian Arab by Sempatico. We could not be more tickled with him. He’s most likely going to be taller than Mom (who’s at least 15.3) or Dad, has the bone to back up the height and I’m not sure who’s personality he inherited. The mare is really laid back and sweet. How else do explain a mare that really hasn’t had much done with her in her eight years put up with us following her around the paddock hanging on to her tail to brush it out? Who’s trot did he get? Hard to tell, the mare has an awesome trot too. And let’s just say that if this mare isn’t approved this week I’ll have to rethink everything I know about how horses move. Would I breed every broodmare that the breeder has to a WB? NO!!! Absolutely not!!! Some of the mares, he!! yes!
I think it all comes down to research, ie, knowing what the prospective parents produce (or theoretically will produce) and if it meets your breeding goals. And after coming up with that theoretical offspring considering whether it will help the breed(s) in the long run, or if it will be an end unto itself.
sporthorse breeding
Someone on this thread said it all: “a good horse is a good horse, no matter what the breed”!
I think where this thread got into trouble was when TRI compared the entire Arabian breed to the current day halter horse. I will openly admit, I don’t care for the halter horses of today but they make up only a small portion of the show horses. Unfortunately, these are the people who have all the magazine space thus dumping us all into that stereotype.
You cannot compare the halter horse to the performance horse. They are as different as day and night. I have a cousin who has Irish Warmbloods. He has a hell of a time with them. They were foaled in American so I guess you would really say they are just warmbloods. Would I dare judge the entire warmblood world by these two horses, of course not. Would I come onto a public forum and call them DUMB BLOODS and lump them all into this category. NO, I think this term is rude but I’ve heard it more than once from OTHER WB people. I realize that the PB Arabian will never jump the Olympics, or win the Gold Cup in Dressage but for their size and in the right classes, they will sure as hell give the WB a run for their money. And even win. Nobody is aking for sunshine up anyone’s butt, but how about a little credit for those who strive to represent their breed on the All Breed Hunter/Jumper and Dressage shows. These horses are out there doing double duty. Competing against the larger breed of horses and showing the talents of the Arabian. As for our jumpers, I don’t care if they are flat, dancing on their ears or springing of their tails, if they can beat the warmblood over the jumper course, THAT’S WHAT COUNTS! I have no records on Hunters winning on the open circuit so I can’t make a reference. Possibly someone else does. The point is:
Do you have the guts to go into the ring as the underdog with an Arabian? Sure, a good horse is a good horse to those open minded people who are not locked into their own breed type as the one and only.
King of Kings, etc etc>>> It really does not necessarily matter if the sire is 16 hh, it is what he can sire. Lasodo is an honest 15.3 hh, and my mare was 15.2 hh. Their offspring, my 6 yr old half-arabian gelding Illuminado, is 16.3 hh with a regulation stick, standing on concrete.
Lasodo is also the sire of the horse mentioned earlier, L’Imbre, who is half arabian and half Swedish WB [as I remember] and stands 17 hh. All the Lasodo offspring usually have size, and wonderful minds. EQ
Wow, talk about the outright lies told by the arab breeders regarding me on this forum. Yes, please grow up, stop the lies, learn to read and quite just flat out making up stuff! Again, maybe it is the arab breeder mentality that is the problem here.
#1. I NEVER said traks weren’t warmbloods. You will never find that in any post I have posted anywhere. Complete 100% lie - among many told here to attribute that to me.
#2. I never compared the entire arab breed to the halter horses. In fact, I’ve stated just the opposite, that the older style and shagya arabs were good for breeding. Another, one of many, 100% lie to attribute it to me.
#3. It is the arab breeders who started in about, as they put it, my “precious” upper level sport and how, according to THEM, “mayber arabs aren’t suited for “my” upper level sport but make great backyard and local horses”
#4. It is the sporthorse ARAB breeders who called the halter horses bug-eyed and spoke at length about how horrible those breeders are, not me. Stop lying and attributing that to me.
#5. You talk of all the pics posted and I’ve discounted every one, I guess you guys just can’t read because I talked at length about the jumping style of showgun and the anglo-arab in the inverted y site as well as my comments on the bay stallion. So quit making up the drama.
Thank all of you who posted your arab crosses as wonderful examples of good arab use in sporthorse breeding. I wish you luck with the “swimming against the current” YOU guys complain about. After this thread I am sure you will need all the luck you can get with the arab environment exhibited here that you are dealing with.
I also want to add…I think that crossing Arab occasionaly with breeds can really be a good thing. The older style Arab that I have seen have great feet. In fact my mare lost 2 shoes in 15 years and then the rest of the time was bare foot. They are also very sound! My mare is 29 and still trots across the field 100% sound and was only lame one time in her life due to a shoulder injury.
So I would not rule out crossing an Arab with a WB, just because of the stigma that Arabs often get. I think that there are many reasons the cross might be really nice.
You know what I think is happening here? I think Tri is getting a kick out of seeing us Arabian breeders/affectionados/lovers fall all over ourselves defending our breed. We are a group of passionate people who are very passionate about our horses and if I can bet, we are very passioinate about almost everything we do. So, why don’t we just let Tri think what he/she wants to think as we will never ever change his/her mind about our chosen breed. We all know in OUR hearts that we can and do compete in the upper levels of any discipline with our Arabs. We all know that there are BNT’s out there who compete in the upper levels with Arabs and/or Arab crosses in and out of the Arabian ring. We also all know that our breed is needed/desired AND found in most every other breed in order to bring about bone, lightness, personality, great feet, and pretty.
Writings are so very difficult as it is hard to intrerpret the meaning without the inflection of the voice. Sometimes in writing as well as speaking, we say not what we mean. We ring the bell that cannot be unrung. Let’s end this thread and move on to another, don’t give the satsfaction to Tri and anyone else who snickers at our passion. So enough is enough, there are three sides to every story and lie: ours, theirs and the truth that lies in the middle.
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I found Winsome Adante’s dam’s (Juswith Genoa) pedigree here:
http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Future_tyi.htm
The Arab and Anglo-Arab ancestors are clearly marked and there are links to photos of some of the Arabs (who were mostly from Crabbet stud, btw).
The point remains that there have been horses competing at recent Olympics with rather close-up Arab ancestors. Knowing a bit about horses of similar lineage to those in Winsome Adante’s pedigree (and having ridden Arabian horses of that kind of breeding), they are exacty the sort of Arab that can be added to TB/WB sport horse breeding with good results. 
.
Oh thank you, I’m sure I’m at the top of your #1 fan list. :lol: You never did mention who your aunt was, you know, the one who is an Arabian Judge with the daughter who is also an Arabian judge. Not even a teensy weensy hint. :winkgrin:
I didn’t see much of a reaction, negative or positive, to my original post…so here is the substance of it, again.
FBW Kennedy. I have yet to find any forthcoming information about his dam, but she was sired by an Arabian, and is listed (albiet only on allbreed) as an Arabian herself. Of course, this could be erroneous or a “translation” problem – I understand that in some countries, if you mean purebred Arabian, you need to specify that it is purebred, otherwise one just assumes Arab-bred. But it seems entirely possible that Kennedy is gasp half-Arabian. Or somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2.
Anyone have more information on the remainder of her pedigree?
He was CotH Dressage Horse of the Year.
Also, do not forget Bachus, who was sired by the grey Shagya stallion Bajar. Bajar was the result of a brother-sister mating, with contributions from purebreds quite close-up. Suakim and Gazelle, the sire and dam, were both out of Gama, a Shagya Arab by purebred Landsknecht, out of purebred Ipomea. Bachus was born in 1986, stood over 16.2hh (169cm), and from the video ( http://www.horse-flirt.de/video/mov705.m1v - Eylers), looks like a good time.
He stood for Holstein, siring Baldini I ( http://www.horse-flirt.de/video/mov719.m1v) and Baldini II, Briscar ( http://www.horse-flirt.de/video/mov714.m1v and http://213.239.208.29/cms/index.php?.…=237&pagen o= - described as a performance stallion who was internationally successful, and after an injury was used by a junior rider to jump Class S courses. Particulars are listed, but he is described as having an outstanding worth ethic, great speed and rideability). I think they look like fun His quirky, enthusiastic jumping style seems from even limited exposure to be very heritable!
Additionally, while today there are rules about introducing new purebred Arab blood into the Shagya genepool, they are not that far removed. In most cases, I think, the actual contribution from non-Arab horses is quite minimal. It is more the breeding direction, I think, that has made them different. It’d be fascinating to compare their genotypes.
One more thing…quick…we should tell the NRPS to quit. Their intention to breed Dutch Riding Ponies, Dutch Riding Horses, and Dutch Anglo-Arabs (all based on a common element of Arab blood (minimum 25% Arab blood for ponies and 12.5% Arab or Anglo-Arab blood for horses), is sure to fail.
It can’t be Liz Salmon and her daughter Claire can it? I didn’t know if Claire was a judge or not, as I am not familiar with them.
The bottom line, forums, chit chat, pictures, arguments and all the other hype walks, ribbons count. Go out into the all breed shows and compete. Nobody can argue with stats or a win record. If you produce a horse that is a consistent winner, you have made your point. Opinions are a dime a dozen, show wins at the open A shows are priceless. :yes: :yes: :yes:
