Halfpass - what a lovely boy you have! Who is his sire and dam?
halfpass, he’s gorgeous!!! Here is a pic of our 2006 Warmblood (Mirabeau) Arabian (mostly Polish) palomino filly at her first show. She got a 4th, not bad for a big class at Fair Hill Dressage Breed Show.
[QUOTE=H&P;1841231]
Halfpass - what a lovely boy you have! Who is his sire and dam?[/QUOTE]
Thank you, and I thought everyone posted pictures of really nice crosses. I think it makes for a really nice sporthorse if you pick the sire and dam carefully.
My big hunk is by Hilltop Farm’s Riverman and his dam is Wuarantee. Her pedigree includes all my favorite old Polish breeding - Guarnteed, El Paso, Gdynia, Comet, Bandola, Priboj, etc. She is a really solid and well conformed mare with lovely movement and a very smooth and athletic body. She has produced three Riverman foals, one of which has two Sporthorse National Championships and a Top Ten. She has produced a beautiful Feiner Stern daugher, who is in foal to Riverman and a Donnerschlag son who was National Champion First Level and is now showing PSG. She is quite the mare and a perfect example of the kind of Arabian to cross with Warmbloods. Pictures of her can be see at: http://dogwoodsporthorses.com
Here are some photos of my 06’ 1/2 Arab 1/4 DWB 1/4 ASB colt. He just went to Fairhill DSHBS this past weekend and placed 1st in the Arab sporthorse class and 4th in the open 06’ colts (against mainly all pure warmblood foals). He is going to make some arab sport enthusiast a VERY happy person!!
http://goldenventurefarm.com/MazarratiFairhill12.jpg
http://goldenventurefarm.com/MazarratiFairhill9.jpg
http://goldenventurefarm.com/MazarratiFairhill5.jpg
http://goldenventurefarm.com/MazarratiFairhill11.jpg
His dam (She is approved OLDna and is currently in foal to Stedinger for 07’- I am SO excited about this foal!!!):
http://goldenventurefarm.com/Hailey/haileytrotinsp1.jpg
http://goldenventurefarm.com/Hailey/FloatingTrot.jpg
Tawna –
He is stunning! That’s about the nicest cross baby I’ve seen…and mama is certainly no slouch! What’s her breeding?
And lucky you – having a Stedinger baby on the way from her!
CSF: Thank you!! He is quite exceptional. The photos do not do him even a bit of justice as far as his movement is concerned. I am going to be very picky with to whom I sell him to. I want to make sure he doesn’t go sit in someones backyard!!
I am not extremely knowledgeable on Arab pedigree’s. Can anyone fill me in on hers? My mares pedigree can be found here: http://goldenventurefarm.com/broodmares.html She is the second mare down on the page. I owned the sire and dam and she was the first foal I ever bred. No to bad for when I had NO clue what I was doing!! LOL I just got lucky with her!! Now that I know what to breed for, and with the luck of breeding her turning out wonderful, I have high hopes for the 07’ foal. I think Stedinger is an wonderful match for her.
Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. I have another question.
How much of a difference does breeding an Anglo-arab to a WB make. Should the Anglo-arab be on the top or bottom and when breeding from that cross what sort of crosses would you recommend from both a stallion prospect then from a mare prospect ?
[QUOTE=Tawna24;1841964]
(snip)
I am not extremely knowledgeable on Arab pedigree’s. Can anyone fill me in on hers? My mares pedigree can be found here: http://goldenventurefarm.com/broodmares.html She is the second mare down on the page. (snip)[/QUOTE]
I like this mare. 
She is much like the sort I’ve selected for my PB breeding program. SES Hailey even shares several pedigree elements that I identified as likely to work well together to produce good purebred sport horse types.
Here’s one of mine with some similar lines: http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/joytrot604A.jpg
SES Hailey almost qualifies for the CMK bloodline group as all of her lines except the sire line through *Ansanta Ibn Halima --which is “new” Egyptian-- qualify within the CMK breeding group. (She could be bred to a CMK qualifying stallion to produce qualifying CMK offspring since the CMK definition is partially “open”.)
Looking at the individuals in her pedigree, there is evidence of careful breeding selections over generations for the production of good moving functional riding horses so it is not surprising that this mare has produced well when crossed w/ WB’s.
*Count Dorsaz was bred in England and was twice awarded the Winston Churchill Cup for the supreme riding horse at the Royal International Horse Show. By 1956 he had also won nine first prizes in hand. He was particularly known for exceptional movement. He was imported to the US and produced a number of excellent foals on both sides of the pond. *Silver Vanity was an exceptionally beautiful (but not bug-eyed or over refined) stallion that was twice national champion in Great Britain before his importation to the states. *Silver Vanity blended well with mares of substance --adding elegance, a lovely front end and often some increased fluidity of movement (one just had to be careful to cull from breeding the offspring that inherited his his sickle hocks, but valuable blood to have when selected correctly. Height often comes with this line, too.)
Here’s my 2005 filly by a son of *Silver Vanity and out of a mare whose sire line is through Count Dorsaz:
http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Titania_yr_trot.jpg
http://www.faeriecourtfarm.com/photos/Titania_yr_trot.jpg
SES Hailey’s pedigree is full of horses bred by thoughtful breeders including Dan Gainey (famous for the beautiful, but still functional horses of the Azraff-Ferzon golden cross), Bazy Tankersley’s Indraff/Gulastra and Double R lines (the crosses that established her Al-Marah breeding program), Doc Aldred’s Rollingwood lines, “Never Die” lines, and a generous sprinking of Davenport bloodlines throughout the pedigree. All of these programs (and many smaller satellite breeders who bred similarly) bred for useful riding horses.
OTOH, *Ansata Ibn Halima represents the introduction of new Egyptian bloodlines to “improve” the “plain” old domestic Arabian stock. Many of the older domestic lines trace in part to Egyptian stock–but the older Egyptian lines used at Crabbet --and other founding breeders of Arabians outside of the Middle East-- were primarlily selected for riding type while the “new” --starting in the late 1950’s-- Egyptian imports were primarily selected for their “beauty” and “purity” (with the new Egyptian imports came accusations that many Arabians traced to “impure” or “insufficiently documented” lines and were thus labelled by the importers of these new horses as “inferior”, “mongrel” “impure” " and even part-bred").
For illustration of the two distinct types, compare the CMK stallion, Count Dorsaz (http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk/Photo%20page%20-%20Count%20Dorsaz.htm
and the “old” Egyptian foundation stallion of Crabbet Stud, Mesaoud: http://sweetwaterarabians.com/images/Arabian%20Ancestors/mesaoud2.jpg
to the “new” Egyptian *Ansta Abin Halima: http://www.geocities.com/aolsen_2000/PedigreeAnsataIbnHalima.htm
Anyway, good job producing such a fine mare as SES Hailey
Thinking about breeding my Arabian Mare to Popeye K
Hey All
I have been reading the thread. I have been trying to decide if I want to breed my 6 year old 14.2 arab mare to Popeye K. Can anyone tell me about the stallion? and if it would be a good cross? My mare is a bay with very little white and not really a typey head. She is more stocky than most, she is Al Marah bred. I am trying to get something that will jump better and I can get some size.
Wow 13 pages!
I could not read all of it, but I have some thoughts and I apologize if somewhere between where I stopped reading (page 3) and this current one, this was already mentioned.
Celle State Stud breeds to Arabians and Anglo-Arabians. In fact, they own a few. They have, I believe, 2, maybe 3 Arabian stallions and a few Arabian mares. They offer 1 Anglo-Arabian stallion to those outside Germany in their frozen semen program (Bonaparte N).
The point is, they do use them, but judiciously… paired with the RIGHT mare. Sometimes that involves some trial and error. The results can be horrible, average and sometimes, just lovely. But generally speaking, they at Celle are extremely well-respected for their breeding smarts and lineage tracking.
Inschallah AA was an extremely important Anglo-Arabian stallion. His blood is precious and found in such approved stallions as Ironman, but he is also found in the damline of Armitage, a lovely jumping stallion. Inschallah’s daughter was paired with Grannus which produced the State Premium Mare, Farina, who was Armitage’s mother.
The rather spectacular jumping stallion Bonaparte N is an Anglo Arabian stallion. Bonaparte N’s dam was sired by the Shagya stallion, Radautz, and her mother was thoroughbred. Bonaparte N’s father was Anglo-Arab, again descending from a Shagya Arab on his topline, a thoroughbred MARE on the bottom. Not only is he standing at Celle as an approved Hanoverian Verband stallion, but he is also approved by Holstein and Trakehner. He competes in international show jumping classes and does quite well.
The great foundational stallion Matcho AA was Anglo-Arab. He was bred and born in France and it takes a while to trace, but he also descends from the Shagya Arab. He has several generations of Anglo-Arab infused with some extra Thoroughbred blood before he is crossed to various warmblood mares, including the great mare, Prinzessin, a Pik Koenig mare, to produce the likes of Metternich, the Hanoverian Stallion. This combination of breeding improved rideability, trainability, handleability, presence, type and athletic abilities, and Metternich passes on these highly desirable traits to his offspring.
The point I’m trying to make is there is nothing wrong, per se, with crossing an Arabian with a warmblood; but, we need to be judicious and careful that it maintains and/or improves type and interior qualities, and does not sacrifice athletic abilities, rideability/trainability, and constitution.
The Arabian that is used the most for warmbloods is the Shagya Arabian. This particular Arabian is very tough (read: durable), with a very strong constitution (not prone to getting sickly), correct and strongly durable legs, with enormous heart, character, loyalty, athletic abilities of stamina and endurance and extremely good rideability paired with rather sharp intelligence. They also tend to be tallish. They cross extremely well with Thoroughbreds, whether it be top or bottom, as I’ve seen it done either way at the big German studs, such as Celle.
When you have a heavy-type warmblood mare, who tends to reproduce her heavy-ish type and you find yourself always looking for a refining stallion, then she is a candidate for an Anglo-Arab or Shagya Arab stallion. I, myself, have such a warmblood mare that I am seriously considering crossing with Bonaparte N.
However, in your crossing, might I be allowed to pose a word of caution -Maybe I’m a bit wimpy, but I personally believe it is best to use the Arabian or Anglo-Arabian stallions that the Verbands (or your North American breed registry) have already approved. These are stallions who have been through the rigors of the stallion performance testing and have met or exceeded those demanding criteria so as to be approved and placed in the studbook, and then who have subsequently gone on to prove themselves in the breeding shed as producing offspring who will also be proven to meet or exceed the criteria of your particular breed registry. But it also appears that some of you are far braver than I am and took some risks in using a nonapproved stallion and seem to have some really nice results - I bid you continued success!
[QUOTE=friesiandriver;1807563]
[B]
I have one arab mare, a Varian bred , Desperado v (polish) daughter who is also a full sister to a multi national winner. Her movement is exceptional as is her breeding and temperment. I would like something with more bone, height and athletic ability and so to cross her warmblood makes sense to me.
Again, while I don’t think I would do it with an blah or average arab mare, with something really good, I wouldn’t hessitate. And the OP’s colt is a perfect example of this.[/QUOTE]
I have only bred 2. One was my WB mare bred to an Arab stallion and one was an Arab mare bred to a WB stallion (Grandom). I looked at a lot of Arab stallions for my WB mare. Most were unsuitable with being under 15H, steep croup etc etc. Of my short list at the end of suitable Arab stallions…all but one ended up being Bey line Arabs.The Arab mare used was also a Bey line. So…like many other posters said…I think it is good if you use the right Arab but the right Arab is hard to find. Both foals sold to homes that show the half Arab circuit. The colt o/o the WB mare showed very well on the west coast. I have not heard anything about the Grandom gelding since he was sold.
Lol, talk about bumping up an old thread!
[QUOTE=Deardra75;5841947]
Hey All
I have been reading the thread. I have been trying to decide if I want to breed my 6 year old 14.2 arab mare to Popeye K. Can anyone tell me about the stallion? and if it would be a good cross? My mare is a bay with very little white and not really a typey head. She is more stocky than most, she is Al Marah bred. I am trying to get something that will jump better and I can get some size.[/QUOTE]
My only concern with breeding smaller arabian mares to warmblood stallions is if the mares hips and pelvis will allow delivery of a possibly big shouldered foal.
While the 2 hands difference in height isn’t necessarily too much the difference in conformation can put your mare in danger.
[QUOTE=Bats79;5842739]
My only concern with breeding smaller arabian mares to warmblood stallions is if the mares hips and pelvis will allow delivery of a possibly big shouldered foal.
While the 2 hands difference in height isn’t necessarily too much the difference in conformation can put your mare in danger.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this, and I would also be concerned about the disparity in type between Popeye K and a 14.2h purebred Arabian mare from Al Marah bloodlines. Unless you use a somewhat modern and refined WB stallion, your F1 generation could be a “pieces and parts” horse. (Heck, you may get "pieces and parts’ even with a modern type WB, but your chances for success are better if the mare and stallion are closer in type.)
Hunter breeders, help her out. Which modern looking hunter type stallions are out there that would be suitable for a 14.2h Arabian mare?
This!
Hey, if you are looking for Anglo Arabians, I have a bunch if you want to get an idea of what several generations of breeding Anglos will produce in a USA breeding program:)
Here is my Anglo stallion schooling this month at 3’-3’3" with a new rider (second day).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR3iJEggymE
For the person looking to breed their 14.2H mare, take a look at the stallions available at www.shnpayback.org They are half priced (and the foals are eligible to win money for life) and a lot of very nice WB hunter types, too.
Regarding the size difference, I wouldn’t worry about it, unless that particular stallion is noted for huge foals. I know that Escapade is pushing 16.3H but is used on pony mares all the time, with great results. I also bred a 14.3H mare to a 17.2H TB and got a great Anglo foal!
[QUOTE=DownYonder;5843038]
I agree with this, and I would also be concerned about the disparity in type between Popeye K and a 14.2h purebred Arabian mare from Al Marah bloodlines. Unless you use a somewhat modern and refined WB stallion, your F1 generation could be a “pieces and parts” horse. (Heck, you may get "pieces and parts’ even with a modern type WB, but your chances for success are better if the mare and stallion are closer in type.)
Hunter breeders, help her out. Which modern looking hunter type stallions are out there that would be suitable for a 14.2h Arabian mare?[/QUOTE]
That’s the nice part of Arabians… You really can breed them to almost anything, and get a nice horse (or pony) if you use quality parents. Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses, Trakehners, Morgans, Saddlebreds, Appaloosas, Welsh Ponies, Connemaras, Oldenburgs…
Lovely crosses from all of those, and more.
Not been here for a while and saw this (wowsy length!) old thread being bumped up. Below you can see our 2011 ShA x Hanoverian specimen, a mating that was made with the very F2-4 in mind and for my part I believe it has worked out super. This colt is everything I have hoped for to get from his ShA sire (who is not only participating in the PHS (Hanoverian Jumper Breeding Progam) but also capable of doing a tricky 5’ course with an amateur aboard.
I didn’t lose size (he’s certainly going to be 17h-ish, besides size is generally nothing I need to be worried about with my mare-stem), I didn’t seem to lose bone (which was part of why I lean towards the ShA vs. ox blood if introducing Arab-blood).
And the very best I got was a ShA brain. Boy does this colt take hearts… He was smart enough to ‘chose’ my 6yo daughter and follow her around in the field, figured out how to auto-load in the trailer within 10 seconds and is overall a super relaxed fellow (which is one of the only two down-sides I’ve been able to pin in his dam, who is an SPS best in show winner, mom to an S-level dressage horse, maternal sister to an approved Hanoverian and event-BC finalist and scored 8’s on her trot and rideability during her MPT herself). She can be easily stressed out and does not easily trust strangers.
That being said I know both parents are of the sort that will try their heart out for you in the sport.
This is him (off the market 
):
Kareen, wow! He has all the fine beneficial points the Shagya brings to the table, mixed in very lovely style with the Hanoverian. Very nice indeed. No wonder you wanted to keep him. Are you thinking of presenting him at the 2-year-old stallion inspections?
He is very nice!!!
