Western Dressage - 1 handed?

[endlessclimb]

@Knights_Mom

It doesn’t take exact phrasing to express emotion or thought.

Woof, woof.

@Knights_Mom

The word IF doesn’t change meaning when it’s followed by 10 other words instead of 8 other words.

[Bluey]

@Knights_Mom

Now who is making assumptions?

I would not have any beginner nor most any riders riding in a spade bit.

The word IF doesn’t change meaning when it’s followed by 10 other words instead of 8 other words.

I’m not misunderstanding you on purpose. I’m debating your point of view with my point of view. This would not bother you in the least bit had the discussion began with a sincere curiosity for the sport rather than a predetermined bias for the sake of stating how stupid other disciplines and riders are.

When you start with this bias, the total lack of respect enables dismissiveness.

Who here is calling other disciplines below them?

Without having participated and learned what those involve, just on hearsay and obviously not an educated eye and adding to their lack of knowledge some heavy bias?

Lets remember the horse world is very large, we don’t know what we don’t know until we learn more.
Speaking with firmly carried opinions on what we really don’t understand?
No way to become better at what horses and their world are, believe it or not.
Keeping that in mind helps.

[Knights_Mom]

Whatever.

I’m quite secure in my knowledge. In fact, very secure. I don’t care who agrees. Personal attacks rather than debating the issue is often the way it is on here.

So as one poster barks at me, and the other insults me, be rest assured that I am confident of my ability to judge what I see in WD. I’m also confident of what I see in regular dressage.

Don’t agree with me? I don’t care.

[Bluey]

Neighbors came by, they participate in ranch rodeos.
The Olympics were on TV, Nicole Uphoff and Rembrand next.
Here is a bit more for those that don’t know about them:

The Horse Magazine

They sat down and watched, first time to see any dressage, were commenting “why is she holding the horses so tight, does she ever give it its head so he can move out?”

“Different strokes for different folks.”

[Knights_Mom]

Uphoff was the first to use hyperflexion, stating it was because Rembrandt was rather volatile.

And?

[endlessclimb]

LOL whoosh!

[Knights_Mom]

First barking, now whooshing.

Maybe time to stop talking to doggie? Get out for awhile? Visit a museum?

And no, it didn’t go over my head.

[enjoytheride]

I know that you’re a big supporter of Alan Buck and his FB. I can’t imagine that anyone there would be ok with contact on the curb.

Are you saying that you are a WDAA judge?

[Knights_Mom]

I’m not a “big supporter” of Buck. I’ve said I believe his heart is in the right place. He is capable of human failings just like anyone else though.

[Bluey]

@Knights_Mom

Uphoff was the first to use hyperflexion, stating it was because Rembrandt was rather volatile.

And?

Straw man argument?

—“A straw man argument is constructed by presenting an opposing position as a warped, extreme version of itself . There are a few different ways an individual might turn a reasonable argument into a straw man: Oversimplifying it: An arguer might regurgitate a complex or layered issue as a simple, black-and-white one.”—

[Knights_Mom]

I didn’t bring up Uphoff.

[jvanrens]

@endlessclimb

Meanwhile our resident dressage guru has no problems with people riding intro in a spade on contact. Sweet.

How many people do you think are actually riding intro in a spade bit? I’ve been riding western a heck of a long time and I think I’ve only ever seen one spade bit, hanging on the wall in a tack room as a decorative piece. Don’t mistake fancy shanked bits as being spade bits, like the picture of the Saddlebred posted earlier. I’d lay money on that bit not being a spade, just a fancy shanked bit that Saddlebred people like to use. Most I’ve seen have a low port or a snaffle (broken) mouth piece.

[endlessclimb]

I have a problem with people riding intro (or training, or first, or second) in a curb/leverage bit, period. But according to the WDAA, there would be nothing wrong with riding it in a spade.

[PopPopcorn]

Raging Battle: 1

[cnm161]

I showed at WDAA worlds this year and there are indeed some very big ports on some of the intro and basic horses. Not all, certainly, and not all of the big bits won, but it’s not just plain snaffle mouthpieces.

The ethos of the sport is great: very welcoming, looking for harmony above flash, all that good stuff. They are trying to balance trying to keep the doors open to riders who are coming from very different backgrounds (rodeo, trails, breed shows, ranch, reining, dressage, etc.) with ideals. They have grown a lot in the last 10 years. I wonder if we will see a shift in bitting regs as they shift away from primarily growth to more development.

[Knights_Mom]

I completely agree with you.

[starrunner]

I would like to see the sport continue to evolve but I am also in the camp that I don’t think two hands on a curb is inherently against dressage ideals.

Some horses just seem more relaxed or comfortable carrying a curb and is light contact and conversation in a curb bit more abusive than a horse having a difficult time in a snaffle?

But I’m one of those dang two handed curb people but my curb is a short shanked curb with the independent contact on each side.

I also drive in light curb contact too same story with the snaffle there. I am striving for that same feeling of lightness, conversation, and push no matter the seat riding or driving. Sometimes we’re successful, sometimes not but I appreciate the general low key appeal of wd and offering a variety of options to encourage people to learn and improve with their horses.

[Montanas_Girl]

@starrunner

I don’t think two hands on a curb is inherently against dressage ideals.

That hasn’t been the argument (or at least it isn’t mine). Two hands and constant contact on a curb bit are inherently against WESTERN riding ideals. “Western” dressage is filling a niche for a lot of people and horses. Its growing popularity speaks to that. But the tests, directives, and tack rules were all written by dressage minded people, not western ones.

[starrunner]

Yes and no.

I would say romels have constant contact and there are a number of the old vaquero images in historical art with contact being quite present (two handed even!) so I suppose it depends which western perspective is being presented. Granted romels are to be used one handed on a finished horse.

It does seem though WDAA allows members to have quite a bit of input and I’ve seen more emails and newsletters from them than most of the organizations I’m involved in so curious how this will continue to evolve.

[NoSuchPerson]

@starrunner

there are a number of the old vaquero images in historical art with contact being quite present (two handed even!)

Well, sure, during the “two rein” phase of training a bridle horse. But the contact that is “quite present” is more with the bosal/bosalito than with the curb.

@Montanas_Girl, once again you’ve captured my thoughts perfectly.