What next for California Chrome?

[Beaver_Breeze]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8085381]
What do you think was the goal, to get him back to breeding? He had a second compression surgery and went back to Three Chimneys but was not getting better there. The horse was finished with breeding and at Three Chimneys he could not be far enough away from the mares. Hence calling Hill N’Dale a retirement farm where he could hopefully recover and his groom went with him.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/8850/seattle-slew-moves-to-hill-n-dale

http://www.tbheritage.com/TurfHallmarks/Graves/cem/GraveMattersHillnDale.html[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[Shammy_Davis]

http://www.drf.com/news/california-chrome-set-ambitious-path

[Calamber]

Here is nice stallion from the unfashionable or “branched” lines onto a new career.

http://www.avalon-equine.com/baatesh.html

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8089018]
Here is nice stallion from the unfashionable or “branched” lines onto a new career.

http://www.avalon-equine.com/baatesh.html[/QUOTE]

??

[PeteyPie]

I wish Perry Martin all the best. He seems to be raising a lot of eyebrows by campaigning his horse differently than what is normally done, but I really don’t see the harm in it. The horse is clearly fit.

Horses run races every two weeks on many tracks. This well-trained and well-conditioned horse will run again in a little over a month and a half. Is that really so awful? Then the horse will race again a month later. I just don’t think that is an outrageous thing to ask of this capable horse.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8089018]
Here is nice stallion from the unfashionable or “branched” lines onto a new career.

http://www.avalon-equine.com/baatesh.html[/QUOTE]

There is nothing unfashionable about that horse’s lines. Actually, just the opposite.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;8089041]
I wish Perry Martin all the best. He seems to be raising a lot of eyebrows by campaigning his horse differently than what is normally done, but I really don’t see the harm in it. The horse is clearly fit.

Horses run races every two weeks on many tracks. This well-trained and well-conditioned horse will run again in a little over a month and a half. Is that really so awful? Then the horse will race again a month later. I just don’t think that is an outrageous thing to ask of this capable horse.[/QUOTE]

Three different continents, different climates, different time zones, different surfaces, and a different direction around the track. Not to mention a different trainer. It seems like a lot to ask to me.

Horses–like human athletes–often train to peak for a specific race. Now CC is being asked to hold that peak for a couple of months under all those dissimilar conditions (not to mention some very tough racing thrown in along the way.)

Perry Martin’s horse, Perry Martin’s call. Based on what he’s saying, he thinks he owns a SuperHorse. I’ll be interested to see what happens.

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8089018]
Here is nice stallion from the unfashionable or “branched” lines onto a new career.

http://www.avalon-equine.com/baatesh.html[/QUOTE]

You keep referring to Pulpit lines as unfashionable. On what planet is Pulpit unfashionable? The highest priced stallion in North America is a Pulpit son!

When it comes to California Chrome, the conversation is about the possibility of big $$$$$ offers, not just the option to remain a stallion. Of course he’ll remain a stallion and have breeders interested in him. There is zero doubt of that.

But his owners have given the impression that they are in search of HUGE money syndication offers. It is unlikely that anyone in this country will go on a limb and invest astronomical amounts of money up front for him. He is the son of the so-so regional stallion Lucky Pulpit out of a claiming race regional mare who doesn’t have any other blacktype for three generations. So-so sire + weak dam line = unlikely stallion prospect. You can already breed to any number of proven Pulpit sons and grandsons from more impressive families.

Now if California Chrome proves himself in the shed, none of that will matter and the money will come flowing in. But until then, he’s not going to be setting any US syndication records, no matter what he does on the track.

[danceronice]

What a bunch of drama queens…you’d think that every horse asked to run the way they’re not used to (ie every European who ships to the US) breaks down horribly, instead of, oh, mostly curbstomping weak US fields.

[CVPeg]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8082723]
You need to check yours, he admitted to a drinking problem when he cross purposed with the owners after the TC, again. The horse had 14 wins from 17 starts, his record stands for itself and I am glad he was not just retired to the breeding shed right away. http://www.seattleslew.com/race_career.aspx He was tired when he was going into the Swaps, finished fourth, later on was operated on for a neck problem, and died in his sleep at age 28, hardly a worn out sick horse. He was well loved by the owners and doted on (not shipped around the world to breed). Turner on the other hand is now on his 3rd wife, sober only from 1990. Make sure you read the part where Steve Haskin
says that Jim Hill tried to help Billy Turner get over his problem for a year and where he himself is quoted as saying he nearly drank himself to death. I am not trying to slam the guy but do get the story straight, it is not at all like the California Chrome situation.

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2010/09/21/the-life-and-death-of-seattle-slew.aspx[/QUOTE]

You did exactly that - what a load of vitriol - when this paragraph from the above Haskin story depicts him and his philosophy perfectly.

“There’s no bitterness at all,” Turner said. “We all made mistakes, but we’ve grown and learned a lot. I appreciate everything they did for me and have no hard feelings whatsoever. I just feel very fortunate to have had a horse like Slew come along in my lifetime. And after practically drinking myself to death, I still was able to make a solid comeback and am grateful for everything. Here I am the only living trainer to have won the Triple Crown. I figure I’ve gotten a lot more than I deserve.”

If you knew him, these are the kind of words you’d understand about him. And, to be frank, the above, for him, is true. For others, not so much, as he was wronged repeatedly. As was the horse. Am sure Karen Taylor’s obsession w/ Slew was meant w/ good intentions. But many of her, or her’s and Mickey’s decisions were very detrimental to his well being.

@Beaver Breeze;8084990

He wasn’t going there for retirement. If retirement was the goal, he would have stayed at Three Chimneys.

Absolutely true. Taylor got into a snit perceiving Slew “being upset” so dragged him out of there - frankly unceremoniously considering all the care and love those at Three Chimneys shared over many long years. There are still hard feelings present as a result.

And, someone else knew it would be his demise, saying “when you move an old stallion, he doesn’t have long”. He was right.

@Shammy Davis;8085513

Sorry to have ruffled your feathers but I continue to believe you are out of touch with the facts. HRTV did a 2 part series on this where both sides speak to issues. For every link you produce I can provide an opposing one. Forgive me though if I drop the conversation because my farm needs more attention now than this.

Ditto this.
Sorry for dragging this back up, but missed the chance to respond while working.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8089050]
Three different continents, different climates, different time zones, different surfaces, and a different direction around the track. Not to mention a different trainer. It seems like a lot to ask to me.

Horses–like human athletes–often train to peak for a specific race. Now CC is being asked to hold that peak for a couple of months under all those dissimilar conditions (not to mention some very tough racing thrown in along the way.)

Perry Martin’s horse, Perry Martin’s call. Based on what he’s saying, he thinks he owns a SuperHorse. I’ll be interested to see what happens.[/QUOTE]

What is this “3 continents/time zones/etc.” you speak of? Someone would think this horse has been to the moon and back 3 times.

Dubai and England are only 3 hour difference in time. It’s less than a 5 hour flight to escape from Dubai to a very horse-friendly climate, geography and people in England. Comparable to transporting from California to Kentucky, during which trip the horse stands quietly eating hay and/or sleeping. Could probably even watch a movie if he wanted to. He wasn’t in Dubai that long, which is a good thing. If I were a horse I’d definitely want to leave Dubai the next day to get to Newmarket.

Compared to the traveling & competing some of the 3*/4* event horses do, traveling many road miles across the U.S. or even back and forth across the Atlantic for a 3-day competition, with the most intense phase lasting 10-12 minutes followed by another effort the next day, Chrome’s schedule is a piece of cake.

I don’t get the big problem.

[LaurieB]

@OverandOnward;8089099

What is this “3 continents/time zones/etc.” you speak of? Someone would think this horse has been to the moon and back 3 times.

Last time I checked, California, Meydan and Newmarket were on 3 different continents in 3 different time zones. Maybe you have a different map than I do?

I guess you don’t think that for a horse to switch trainers, surfaces, and direction of running is a big adjustment to make in a short amount of time, but it happens that I do. Could be that CC will ace the whole thing. As I said, I’ll be interested to see what happens.

By the way, Martin has been candid about the fact that he’s making these decisions based solely on the need to increase CC’s value as a stallion prospect. Art Sherman had other priorities for the horse–and good for him. If you don’t think that CC’s trainer was more in tune with his needs than his part-owner than you’re not giving Art Sherman enough credit.

[danceronice]

Depends on your definition of ‘short amount of time.’ If anything this is smarter than the timing on shipping to Dubai (which Martin was against)–he had very little time to acclimate to a radical climate shift. Now he’ll have weeks with a local trainer who knows how to prep horses in the UK in a much milder climate.

Frankly I’m not sure what people want. Put the horse on a plane for twenty hours back to California, sit around there, look for a spot against sparse fields in Cali (and get slammed for running against ‘nothing’; see complaints about his turf win), ship east and get people complaining they’re shipping him all over to chase money in THIS country (see PA Derby), retire him to stud in the US and get called chicken for not doing either of the above because they’re “scared” of Shared Belief AND get no money for him because he could win the Prix de l’Arc and the Japan Cup and still no stud farm here would want him anyway so he’d end up in California standing for maybe $25k if they’re lucky? Or race him (and he appears to be completely sound and handles change and varied conditions just fine) overseas the way Europe races their horses in America? He’s a racehorse, not a lawn ornament.

I mean, really, the worry that he’s going to break like he’s some sort of fragile flower is absurd. He’s never taken a bad step and his only injury has been someone stepping on him and he came back fine. If people want to wring their hands over horses made of glass, they should worry about this year’s Derby field and how they’re dropping like flies. Another one just joined the list (Dubai Sky fractured a leg and is out. No word on just out for now or done for good.)

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8089044]
There is nothing unfashionable about that horse’s lines. Actually, just the opposite. [/QUOTE]

This was in response to Texarkana’s post about Pulpit.

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8089044]
There is nothing unfashionable about that horse’s lines. Actually, just the opposite. [/QUOTE]

This was in response to Texarkana’s post about Pulpit.

“If DAP’s intentions are to find a high dollar stallion deal, I think they are barking up the wrong tree. Even if he becomes a European racing phenom, how much more is anyone going to truly pay for a son of Lucky Pulpit out of a claiming race winning daughter of Not For Love? The pedigree just isn’t there for high dollar offers up front. He’s going to have to prove himself in the shed like any other horse of modest breeding.”

[Angelico]

The rules sure are different in Europe. If I was to send my horse to be trained by someone else while continuing to run the horse in my name, I’d lose my trainer’s license for “program training”.

[LaurieB]

[QUOTE=Calamber;8089389]
This was in response to Texarkana’s post about Pulpit.

“If DAP’s intentions are to find a high dollar stallion deal, I think they are barking up the wrong tree. Even if he becomes a European racing phenom, how much more is anyone going to truly pay for a son of Lucky Pulpit out of a claiming race winning daughter of Not For Love? The pedigree just isn’t there for high dollar offers up front. He’s going to have to prove himself in the shed like any other horse of modest breeding.”[/QUOTE]

Texarkana’s post was about Lucky Pulpit (as you quoted) not Pulpit.

Pulpit and Lucky Pulpit are two different horses and two extremely different sires.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=Angelico;8089503]
The rules sure are different in Europe. If I was to send my horse to be trained by someone else while continuing to run the horse in my name, I’d lose my trainer’s license for “program training”.[/QUOTE]

They are no different. Do Steve Asmussen and Todd Pletcher train every horse they have stabled at different tracks around the country? Not unless they have cloned themselves they don’t.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;8089670]
They are no different. Do Steve Asmussen and Todd Pletcher train every horse they have stabled at different tracks around the country? Not unless they have cloned themselves they don’t.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they have a key to the transporter.

[Calamber]

[QUOTE=LaurieB;8089562]
Texarkana’s post was about Lucky Pulpit (as you quoted) not Pulpit.

Pulpit and Lucky Pulpit are two different horses and two extremely different sires.[/QUOTE]

Well that is bizarre, Lucky Pulpit is by Pulpit. Kind of related don’t ya think?